Tubbed adhesive

AliGage · May 29, 2012

Some of you may remember a little while back i got caught up in a bit of a rant by stating someone should not of used, what i believed was tubbed adhesive. Brand and product in particular was BAL whitestar. I think i proved myself to be correct before.

I hate to go over old ground but i have to post about what i experienced today.
Current job i'm on is for a young chap that's just brought a brand new, 4 bedroom home. I'm in there to simply tile the floors in the Kitchen, Bathroom, En-Suite and Cloakroom. I started on the En-Suite today. The splashbacks and wall tiling is already completed as part of the house build. I pulled out the WC and basin today so i could board the floor and install de-coupling membrane.
When it came to removing the basin i cut the Silicon, unscrewed it from the wall and went to lift it out (being extra gentle too!). The two rather large tiles on the splashback FELL away from the wall. I managed to catch them from slipping toward the shower enclosure. Below are some photos:

Two tiles, and to my count five errors. Is this really how new build homes are being built these days?? You wouldn't catch me stapping into that cubicle for a shower!!

Dan · May 29, 2012

Not much key to the wall. And the adhesive seems to have been left on the tile for a while before fixing. And also back-buttered. So I assume he's buttered a few, and then stuck them to the wall, which seems to be bowed somewhat.

So they're never going to stick.

What are the 5 you counted? Intrigued.

Andy Allen · May 29, 2012

thats the way it is on site, times money when your paid by the m2, and you use what your given..

on the other hand i took a row of tiles off round a bath on a new build the other day and it pulled all the plaster board off , swings and rounabouts i guess..

The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP · May 29, 2012

Looks like those tiles have been fixed to emulsion Ali, am I right?

Dan · May 29, 2012

Ahhh bloody 'ell Phil you're right! I missed that. Same colour as the walls even!!

White Room · May 29, 2012

When I done site work a few years ago all they supplied was tubbed gear including being used in shower areas.....

AliGage · May 29, 2012

Yes Phil. There's emulsion there, not as thick in places as the rest of the walls, but where the adhesive hasn't touched the wall you can see the markings of a roller.
The adhesive has been spread with the notches of the trowel on the back of the tile. Doesn't look like a lot of pressure has been applied when fixing. Either that or the tub was beggining to dry out.

I listed the following:

Dan's right, they've been "back buttered".
The size of tile is too large for tubbed adhesive.
Tiled over paint, and not a hint of any primer.
6mm trowel would not be recommended by the manufacturer (based on the most common brands)

If the shower cubicle has been done the same? There's a high pressure cylinder in the house. So all though the shower is a mixer bar it's technically a power shower. Tubbed addy is generally unsuitable for wet areas and power showers.

Rookery · May 29, 2012

Its not just the tiling. Most volume new builds are thrown up using poor quality materials and specs. The end of terrace house I grew up in built in 1921 will probably still be standing in 2121 because it was built properly with good materials. Todays new builds wont last 75 years before they fall down.

dave l and l · May 29, 2012

i am in a new build and i manged to rip out the full bathroom without damaging a wall, 20m2 of tiles, tiles came of so easy it was great

Martyn Leeds · May 30, 2012

A common thing i find is plasterers go in one day, then you get sent in to tile the day after.
Site managers just don't take tiling seriously I dont think.

John Benton · May 30, 2012

AliGage said:
Yes Phil. There's emulsion there, not as thick in places as the rest of the walls, but where the adhesive hasn't touched the wall you can see the markings of a roller.
The adhesive has been spread with the notches of the trowel on the back of the tile. Doesn't look like a lot of pressure has been applied when fixing. Either that or the tub was beggining to dry out.

I listed the following:

Dan's right, they've been "back buttered".
The size of tile is too large for tubbed adhesive.
Tiled over paint, and not a hint of any primer.
6mm trowel would not be recommended by the manufacturer (based on the most common brands)

If the shower cubicle has been done the same? There's a high pressure cylinder in the house. So all though the shower is a mixer bar it's technically a power shower. Tubbed addy is generally unsuitable for wet areas and power showers.

First thing I thought when I saw it was paint on the walls. I guess the plasterer plastered, next day the painter painted and the next dat the tiler tiled. He possibly tiled the same day and the paint could quite easily have not dried either.

I will not do site work because of this reason

Brian the Tile · May 30, 2012

you cant blame the adhesive for them tiles falling of you have to blame whoever put them on if that was white star and the area had no emulsion on it the tile would have pulled the plasterboard off with it white star is agood product

Peter · May 30, 2012

1) Tiled on paint
2) Tubbed adhesive
3) Skimping adhesive on tile
4) No adhesive on back of trim
5) 6mm Notch
6) Wider than basin

And that's only what can be seen from the photos :mad2:

Surely tubbed adhesive is a false economy on turnkey houses. A bucket usually costs round the same as a bag of powdered and you get twice as much from the bag.

Discount Tile Supplies · May 30, 2012

Bucket adhesive is fine if used correctly but it never is. Powder addy is the best but can also fail if used incorrectly.

I think most of the posts above got it right in one way or another, damp walls, paint and buttering the back of tile etc.

Lets hope the tilers who fixed these will learn and use powder addy all of the time rather than being forced by housing developers to use buckets because addy manufacturers specify it.

But then the likes of Bal, Mapei etc will say different as they sell shed loads a week!!!

Discount Tile Supplies · May 30, 2012

The usual incorrect uses of bucket adhesives, walls were still damp and PVA used

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