Advice needed - removing tiles from backer board after bad job

[gmt1981]

Hi guys,

After spending time carefully prepping a small ensuite with backer board, a local tiler (pro - not just a jack of all trades) has done a good job on the walls but has messed up the floor.

The narrow walls are plumb straight, but the back wall is not. For some reason the tiler has used the back wall as a base so the tiles are crooked, with narrowing and widening cuts on both sides as per the photo.

Without coming round to check, the tiler knew what I was talking about and offered to sort it. It seems he realised it was going off in one direction but just carried on as the adhesive had started to set. I was in at the time and had spare tiles so wish he had just stopped and checked with me to see if I was happy.

Anyway, he's coming round on Monday as this is the only day he's available all month. I suspect he will try to do the job in one day but I'm concerned that the backer board will be destroyed when trying to remove the tiles and adhesive. Does anyone have any experience of doing this and tips.

I used no more ply which was glued and screwed to the floorboards.

Is it reasonable to expect him to cover the cost of the replacement materials (ca. £70), as although I can be a perfectionist, I don't think I'm being fussy here?

Also, if the backer boards have to be replaced, how long after priming can the tiles be laid?

Many thanks
Graham

 

[Ian]

Could have set them out better definitely, are the tiles square in the doorway? I assume the room isn't square?

 

[gmt1981]

The tiles by the doorway are deeper one side than the other. The left and right walls are square, but the back wall is possibly out a bit but that shouldn't have made much of a difference, especially as I made it clear the far end (in the photo) would be covered by boxing

 

[White Room]

On the left hand side is that where hardie was used...

 

[gmt1981]

On the left hand side is that where hardie was used...

The backer board was used over the entire floor

 

[gmt1981]

In his defence he has done a great job on the wall tiles - I just think he had a slight moment on the floor

 

[White Room]

Are you putting anything against the brick wall..units etc.

 

[gmt1981]

Are you putting anything against the brick wall..units etc.

Sink and pedestal, plus a toilet on the back wall

 

[White Room]

My way of thinking is....I like to have a good size tile to doorways if pos, if he had moved over the tile to the doorway to the right in the setting out the cutting of the tile on the left hand side where the pipe comes out the floor would possibly break as he was fixing due to a small cut into the tile.

 

[Andy Allen]

Looking at the photos the room seems well out of square if he squared off the back wall the doorway would look awful.

 

[AliGage]

I personally don't think hes done a bad job at all.
The small cut to the brick wall isnt ideal, but, in a room thats clearly out of square and such a small space too, the slightest deviation will stand out.

However, consider how you're going to use this room. If the cuts in the doorway were straightened to the door wall then you'd be stood in the shower and the grout lines would look peed looking out of the shower. To which I think would be 100 times worse. Youre not going to walk in to a cloakroom staring right down at your feet are you?

Who built the studwork around the shower?

 

[gmt1981]

Perhaps I'm not explaining it clearly enough, or its just something I'm being fussy about. However, if you stand in the shower the grout lines don't point straight ahead but slightly to the left, with cuts getting smaller on the wall to the left, and cuts getting bigger to the wall on the right.
The small cuts by the brick wall don't bother me as they will be covered by boxing anyway.

How can you tell the walls are out? From a layman's point of view, it looks like the whole lot would have looked straight if he had worked off either the door or brick wall.

The timer admitted himself to that it was out, so whilst I do welcome further discussion does anyone also know how easy it is to remove the old tiles without damaging the backer board?
Many thanks

 

[AliGage]

Maybe I need another coffee and then have another look.

 

[widler]

If you straighten off the brick wall it will look massivly out in the doorway. It looks out both ways if you know what i mean
But if you insist on taking them up, hammer , bolster and hit em .
2 ways they will come up
1 in pieces
2 fully
All depends on how well they are stuck

 

[John Benton]

So what you're saying is when stood in the shower the grout line is not running at 90 degrees to the tray. From what you have said it can only run at either 90 degrees to the tray or parallel with either door wall or back wall, the tiler couldn't make all of those 3 things happen.

 

[Qwerty]

Have you put a square against the tray to see how the tiles run out? As the others say though, something will have to give!

 

[AliGage]

To me it looks at 90° to the shower tray. Difficult to tell really from a picture. But that is what I would of led from. Last thing you'd eant is to be standing in the shower and it running out down the centre of the floor.

 

[Andy Allen]

When

Perhaps I'm not explaining it clearly enough, or its just something I'm being fussy about. However, if you stand in the shower the grout lines don't point straight ahead but slightly to the left, with cuts getting smaller on the wall to the left, and cuts getting bigger to the wall on the right.
The small cuts by the brick wall don't bother me as they will be covered by boxing anyway.

How can you tell the walls are out? From a layman's point of view, it looks like the whole lot would have looked straight if he had worked off either the door or brick wall.

The timer admitted himself to that it was out, so whilst I do welcome further discussion does anyone also know how easy it is to remove the old tiles without damaging the backer board?
Many thanks

When you tile a floor you have to square it off of something looking at your photos if he squared off the brick wall it would look out of square in the doorway same on the opposite wall if he squared off the door wall looks to me like he's tried to avrage it out on both walls not worring about the small cut on the brick wall as it's being boxed in......

 

[Old Mod]

The answer to the setting out really is to set it out urself isn't it.
U can see basically how it will look from what's been done.
So if ur tiler is happy to change it for u then surely the resolution to the setting out will be for u to guide the tiler, and show him how u want it set, then there can be no more heartache.
This isn't a smart *** reply, it's just the easiest solution.
You can tell from the responses here that it's a close call, believe me if members thought there was something fundamentally wrong they WILL say!
Well if I was ur tiler, I'd want u to set it out for me!

 

[p4ulo]

Gosh that's a shame cos the tiles look lovely!
I guess its your call at the end of the day, it will be interesting to see if he comes square off the shower tray or the brick wall? I wonder which one would make you happiest?
They might come off the backer board ok, won't know til he starts chipping away!

 

[John Benton]

If he comes square off the back wall chances are the tiles will be short to the furthest point away on the door wall So something has to give.

 

[gmt1981]

I completely understand that you have to have some unequal cuts somewhere, but they should have been under the shower tray and in the back wall, both of which would have been hidden.

He initially set out his laser line along the brick wall showing equal cuts along the length of the wall. For some reason he then used the back wall as a base line which cause the tiles to be off.

The shower tray is square to the two longest walls. It's just the back wall (furthest wall in the photo that is slightly out.

If you were to have done the job yourself, and on the basis the two longest walls are absolutely parallel, wouldn't it seem logical to use these walls to set out rather than the back wall.

The tiler is a nice guy and if I'm being unreasonable then I may contribute to the rectification costs.

 

[gmt1981]

Another couple of photos to show the room appears perfectly square.

 

[Colour Republic]

I'm sorry to say put putting down a square like that proves nothing.

it appears the tray has been installed square off the door wall. There is boxing on the opposite shower enclosure wall which I presume is to hide pipe work and make the opening the correct size for the tray. That is not to say that the long brick wall is square like you possibly think. Get a long stright edge say 2m and but that hard against the tiles on the boxing. does that brick wall run true?

To be honest what ever you do you are going to have something that doesn't line up. Once you place the toilet against that back wall, the pan is going to go at a funny angle.. unless of course you build boxing behind it and square the toilet with the shower... but hang on, you're then going to see the top of the boxing run out... and so on

I notice you don't have any waste for the basin. I assume you're going to run this along the wall and in to the macerator behind the toilet... is that waste going to be boxed in?

You're looking at it in it's worst possible state as the room clear. By the time the WC and basin are installed you're going to see much less of the floor and other items to confuse the eye and not see just how un-square the room is.

If you wanted everything to run true then the room should have been altered beforehand. You have chosen to use the brick wall as a feature and as such everything should have been engineered off that. Be it with dot and dabbing plaster board or building studwork... altering door frames etc if need be. However seeing as you are tight for space as it is I guess that wasn't an option.

I'm not saying what your tiler has done is what I would have done, as unless I was in the room figuring out just exactly what walls were out and which aren't then it's a hard for anybody to say if he went with the least offensive layout. How you've used the square doesn't show us much as it's been used incorrectly like I say.

The quality of tiling looks OK from the pictures... the silicone job not so sadly.

 

[Andy Allen]

The biggest mistake the tiler made was not to involve you in the set out......However that's not always possible.