Are tiling courses worth it? Is there a market for independent training centres?

[mz30]

I apologise in advance,am not a great fan of tiling courses,what i tend to see is an influx of people who have done a months courses and think they can tile the world,they cant.

Tiling a booth and using batons etc is not what the game is about,infact the last time i used a baton was when i was using bal flex years ago,no offence to the courses but they need to start teaching other stuff ,as a previous thread on the forum stated "tiling is getting harder",i work with a guy who done a course 3 years ago working along side me and he stills make silly mistakes.

If you gonna do a course think long term 5 years on you will still be learning infact guys 20-30 years on are still learning.

 

[Dan]

I tend to think there's a market for short courses and the longer more in depth ones, and even NVQ if the day ever comes that they do actually force it for even domestic work.

A few years ago people would just get a van, and give it a go, and they'd probably get a bit of work, get stuck in their ways and not learn the products and carry on tiling with bad practises.

Since short courses came, it's been a bit of a god send IMO. As other than a long college course, you didn't have an option.

Given the fact even after a college course, you rightly point out that you'd still be learning in 20 - 30 years, I think it's fair to say Darrens course gets you learning quicker. You've got everything fresh in your memory and you need to do a couple of family/friend jobs who are a bit more forgiving, you can even say to them that if they love the work instead of paying you, buy you a tool you need.

I can't see every type of person doing really well out of a short course, I can remember a few myself that you just thought 'christ, how do they manage to drive a car?!' type thing, but they'd learn no more at a college, and would just hinder another tiler if they did hand-on practise with one.

We need a good mix of courses and free choice to choose. Colleges, Short, Long, NVQ, On-site, in a training centre, whatever is it, there will be people who can learn what they need to so they can get out there and really start learning.

And plumbers who want to do a bit of tiling would never go college, so it'd be better at least get them up to scratch with their gear and correct practises and even just have a port of call for if they get stuck.

So I see your point, but if a guy is going to 'do tiling' anyway, then lets train him a bit so he's doing it well. And give him at least the confidence to ask when he's unsure, and have the right technical lines to call and that sort of thing.

They're a winner with some these short courses, a life changing experience, and that's not exaggerating.

We have Elite members on here that have come from NETT and other similar training centres.

 

[mz30]

Dan i really do agree with you mate,and my post was not meant to offend in anyway shape or form,what i was trying to point out is the guys (in my personal experience)that have done said courses and then tried to make it as a tiler have been poor but that is just my experience,as a tiler since i was 16 i do want to impart some of my knowledge and have done over the years to lots of apprentices,but i will always be honest and explain the pitfalls etc.

Maybe i come across as being elititist etc but that is not me i like to tell the truth and the truth only.

But it really annoys me when a guy turns up with a new van ,new tools stc and thinks they know the score when they dont.

This is the gods honest truth a guy came on to my site a couple of years ago,and the contract manager said he is a good tiler look at the kit he has,he then proceeded to butter the back of every tile(never put a serrator near the wall)as you know you then you get no adhesion between the tile and the surface you are tiling,i asked him what experience he had and he replied i done a 2 week course.

not what you wanna hear.

 

[UKTT Darren]

Hi all
Ive trained enough people now to understand peoples capabilities, its down to natural abilities you either have it or havent, if you aint got it doesnt matter how long a course you go on you will allways struggle a little even years later where as if you are practically minded and quite handy to start with things come easy and quickly.

This is no word of a lie, i had one lad turn up to do the tiling course and after 2 demos later of how to serate the wall and apply and space the tiles, he went back to his unit and started putting the tiles on the wall with the white glazed side into the adhesive leaving the biscuit side facing out, he had put about 8 tiles on the wall before i spotted him, now he will never make a tiler even if he done 20 years as an apprentice or in a training school. Gladly they arent all that bad but you do get the odd Frank Spencer on now and again

Some people do their own bathroom with no training and do a good job because they see things logically, with a little guidence of know how to do it properly on a course it makes them quite competent to go on further.

I tell everyone im not trying to turn them into a master tiler overnight as quite rightly said it takes time to find out things yourself in the real world, but as Dan said training centres are for people to find out quickly if there upto it or not, they havent got 4 years to find out like an apprentice would, Most people that come on our course range between 35 - 45, they have commitments and need a wage quicker than a 16 year old would.

Learn the skills in a training centre then carefully select your jobs after to build up your own confidence, when your self employed you choose the jobs that you are comfortable with, start off with the easy ones and build from there, Alan Sugar said on the apprentice last night the man that makes no mistakes doesnt make anything, 4 weeks training or 4 years training your still gonna make them mistakes somewhere, the point is to learn from them and move on

Regards
Darren

 

[mz30]

I dont try to do that but i can only give my honest opinion from my experience.

Thats what this site is about?

Am not going to tell someone they are gonna be the greatest after a course ,because they are not.

What i will do regardless is tell the truth from my point of view,and in my experience they go on a course and think they can tile,they cant, unfortuanetly even the best teacher in the world is not going to show them nearly half enough to make them a tiler.

I dont tar everyone from the same brush and will give anyone a chance,what i wont do is blow smoke up peoples backsides after taking a grand of them and teaching them basics.

When i have had apprentices in the past i wont let them stick a tile on the wall until i think they are ready,and after a month they are nowhere near ready.

 

[SRFredrick]

I tend to think there's a market for short courses and the longer more in depth ones, and even NVQ if the day ever comes that they do actually force it for even domestic work.

A few years ago people would just get a van, and give it a go, and they'd probably get a bit of work, get stuck in their ways and not learn the products and carry on tiling with bad practises.

Since short courses came, it's been a bit of a god send IMO. As other than a long college course, you didn't have an option.

Given the fact even after a college course, you rightly point out that you'd still be learning in 20 - 30 years, I think it's fair to say Darrens course gets you learning quicker. You've got everything fresh in your memory and you need to do a couple of family/friend jobs who are a bit more forgiving, you can even say to them that if they love the work instead of paying you, buy you a tool you need.

I can't see every type of person doing really well out of a short course, I can remember a few myself that you just thought 'christ, how do they manage to drive a car?!' type thing, but they'd learn no more at a college, and would just hinder another tiler if they did hand-on practise with one.

We need a good mix of courses and free choice to choose. Colleges, Short, Long, NVQ, On-site, in a training centre, whatever is it, there will be people who can learn what they need to so they can get out there and really start learning.

And plumbers who want to do a bit of tiling would never go college, so it'd be better at least get them up to scratch with their gear and correct practises and even just have a port of call for if they get stuck.

So I see your point, but if a guy is going to 'do tiling' anyway, then lets train him a bit so he's doing it well. And give him at least the confidence to ask when he's unsure, and have the right technical lines to call and that sort of thing.

They're a winner with some these short courses, a life changing experience, and that's not exaggerating.

We have Elite members on here that have come from NETT and other similar training centres.

Thanks for that Dan. I agree there's an argument for short courses, on-site training and long term courses. I am going to do what Darren suggested and do a week to start with and take it from there.

I have started a wet-room at home and have put it on hold (much to Ann's annoyance) until I have done the training.

 

[SRFredrick]

I dont try to do that but i can only give my honest opinion from my experience.

Thats what this site is about?

Am not going to tell someone they are gonna be the greatest after a course ,because they are not.

What i will do regardless is tell the truth from my point of view,and in my experience they go on a course and think they can tile,they cant, unfortuanetly even the best teacher in the world is not going to show them nearly half enough to make them a tiler.

I dont tar everyone from the same brush and will give anyone a chance,what i wont do is blow smoke up peoples backsides after taking a grand of them and teaching them basics.

When i have had apprentices in the past i wont let them stick a tile on the wall until i think they are ready,and after a month they are nowhere near ready.

That's a fair point but don't forget everyone is starting from a different point. if you take a wet behind the ears 16 year old they may not be ready to put a tile on the wall for 6 months. Hopefully I will be at the other end of the spectrum, having been in the building trade on and off for 30 years. Tiled several bathrooms and kitchens over the years and reasonably proficient plasterer.

I hope that a short course will give me a good foundation in the basic techniques and tricks of the trade, product awareness, British Standards that require complying with, and an idea of how to price jobs.

I would welcome some work experience if you know anyone in the Sheffield area. I would be happy to put some time in FOC to gain some practical experience.

Simon

 

[UKTT Darren]

Everyone is entited to an opinion and nobody is gonna take that away and this is a light hearted forum so everyone enjoys it, trouble is with opinions is mz is you have never been to a training centre so you dont know what and how they teach and can only speculate on what goes on there, there is good and bad ones like everything in life, just like there are bad tradesmen that have been trading 20 years, you are making your opinion of training centres on the lad you talked about on the site you were on, if he had been tiling 20 years and still back buttering which some still do and making a crap job would you blame his training background, probably not. I cant speak for other training centres but everyone that leaves our place goes through a full indepth training program right down to decoupling membrains and all the advanced stuff you need to know as a tiler these days, weight, reactions, movements, sealers etc, remember these people are not 16 years old, they are adults with adult brains, ive had apprentices at 16 and making the tea is a challange for some of them. Tiling aint that hard at the end of the day if your taught correctly from the start and it surely dont take a month to learn how to set out and place tiles on the walls, its more of an attention to detail, Take a look at some of the design work we get our lads doing on the website and thats after 5 days, im not saying they dont have a lot to learn which they do after leaving the course, but there is no need to put people down that are trying to pave a new career for themselves
Regards
Darren

 

[DHTiling]

Everyone is entited to an opinion and nobody is gonna take that away and this is a light hearted forum so everyone enjoys it, trouble is with opinions is mz is you have never been to a training centre so you dont know what and how they teach and can only speculate on what goes on there, there is good and bad ones like everything in life, just like there are bad tradesmen that have been trading 20 years, you are making your opinion of training centres on the lad you talked about on the site you were on, if he had been tiling 20 years and still back buttering which some still do and making a crap job would you blame his training background, probably not. I cant speak for other training centres but everyone that leaves our place goes through a full indepth training program right down to decoupling membrains and all the advanced stuff you need to know as a tiler these days, weight, reactions, movements, sealers etc, remember these people are not 16 years old, they are adults with adult brains, ive had apprentices at 16 and making the tea is a challange for some of them.

Tiling aint that hard at the end of the day if your taught correctly from the start

and it surely dont take a month to learn how to set out and place tiles on the walls, its more of an attention to detail, Take a look at some of the design work we get our lads doing on the website and thats after 5 days, im not saying they dont have a lot to learn which they do after leaving the course, but there is no need to put people down that are trying to pave a new career for themselves
Regards
Darren

Now that can be taken wrongly.. Tiling is not easy for us guys never mind new comers.. but learning! correctly is what i agree with.. so wrong choice of words Darren..

 

[UKTT Darren]

I see what you mean dave, everything is straight forward and easy when you know how to do it. What i meant is it isnt that hard to set you on your way and get an understanding of what you need to do, ive allways said that the real learning will take place after you have left and in the real world, just gotta try and adapt what you have been taught to face different situations

 

[DHTiling]

Thats better..

 

[mz30]

question for you mz30, how many experienced tilers do you know that you would recommend and how many would you not let near your bathroom?

Sorry mate missed your question,to answer it truthfully i wouldnt let any tiler near my bathroom :lol:.

I probably know or have known over a 100 tilers in my time,to be perfectly honest its probably been 60 good ones 40 bad ones at a guess,but at the end of the day your only as good as your last job.

To tell the truth ,we all make mistakes and it could be that the 40 i am talking about were having a bad day/job etc so that may narrow the number down to about 20 really bad ones who make the most basic of mistakes.


To answer nett darrens post

trouble is with opinions is mz is you have never been to a training centre so you dont know what and how they teach and can only speculate on what goes on there, there is good and bad ones like everything in life, just like there are bad tradesmen that have been trading 20 years, you are making your opinion of training centres on the lad you talked about on the site you were on

Am sorry but am not,am basing my opinion on the fact that no matter how good the course ,how good the teacher and how good the student,
They will not be able to walk onto a job after a month and know everything they think they do.

I honestly have no problem with tiling courses,i just think that they should be longer and that the tilers should be told of the expectations of a tiling company and that they should get a bit of experience before taking it on full time.

 

[diamondtiling]

I dont try to do that but i can only give my honest opinion from my experience.

Thats what this site is about?

Am not going to tell someone they are gonna be the greatest after a course ,because they are not.

What i will do regardless is tell the truth from my point of view,and in my experience they go on a course and think they can tile,they cant, unfortuanetly even the best teacher in the world is not going to show them nearly half enough to make them a tiler.

I dont tar everyone from the same brush and will give anyone a chance,what i wont do is blow smoke up peoples backsides after taking a grand of them and teaching them basics.

When i have had apprentices in the past i wont let them stick a tile on the wall until i think they are ready,and after a month they are nowhere near ready.

Have you ever attended a college mate?

 

[mz30]

Have you ever attended a college mate?

College yes,about 20 odd years ago had to go once a week for a couple of years,tiling course no,they werent about when i was an apprentice i dont think.

Think the citb apprenticeships are one week every 3 months or so now,while you are on placement but maybe wrong.

 

[diamondtiling]

College yes,about 20 odd years ago had to go once a week for a couple of years,tiling course no,they werent about when i was an apprentice i dont think.

Think the citb apprenticeships are one week every 3 months or so now,while you are on placement but maybe wrong.

So are you Ian McMahon from IDM Tiling that won the skill build competition in 2009?