Chiselled edge travertine laid in french pattern ( grout joints )

[peegee tips]

Hi Everyone,
With this kind of travertine being laid in the french pattern, how do you accommodate the smaller square tile in the pattern?
On dry laying the tiles, the smaller square seems to be the one that throws the grout joints out. Am i'm right in saying that the smaller square should be of a slightly different size. If you dry lay them on the floor they with no grout joints they fit perfectly.
Anyone got the solution or will the joints just have to vary?
Many Thanks.

 

[DHTiling]

Just fix to accommodate the small ones.. , with it being a chiselled edge,once grouted it will not stand out.

 

[Gazzer]

Just fix to accommodate the small ones.. , with it being a chiselled edge,once grouted it will not stand out.

Unless it was like some i was asked to lay recently , then there would have been a 10mm difference :mad2:

 

[merlecollins]

You can only fix them the best you can Peegee.

If the smaller tiles have a tighter joint in comparison to the rest then that's just the way it is.

As already mentioned above, I would give the smaller tile a respectable enough joint, circa 5mm or above then the rest are what they are.....What joint would that give you on the other tiles?

I've just laid a chiselled edge trav floor with 10mm pegs and it looks great

 

[DHTiling]

If you can dry lay and they fit ok, then they will be alright once spaced

 

[merlecollins]

Just take your time mate and keep back tracking and checking your spacing/lines

 

[peegee tips]

Thanks for your replies so far people......Appreciated.

Dave...you would have thought that if they all fit together perfect when dry laid butting each other , that they would be the same when spaced, but it just doesn't seem to happen.....Am i missing something?

Has anyone else noticed this??

 

[Time's Ran Out]

We had the same problem with these and as Dave said keep them that little bit tighter and when grouted they should look okay!
What I did find however was it became easier to fix in a total random 'pattern':smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHTiling]

It is a common fault with some pattern sets.... i tend to trim them if there is the odd tight one and if chiselled edge then you can use the tile nips to replicate the effect on the cut edge... and once grouted will look great

 

[Time's Ran Out]

It is a common fault with some pattern sets.... i tend to trim them if there is the odd tight one and if chiselled edge then you can use the tile nips to replicate the effect on the cut edge... and once grouted will look great

Exactly what I do Mr Dave but I'am not going to give away all my secrets!
As I now remember it wasn't the 150x150mm which had the size problem it was the 300x150mm. After laying them out and consulting the customer (and after getting a new batch of 1 type of tile) it was agreed to go ahead with the 'random' design.
Always thought it was me being too fussy.

 

[peegee tips]

It is a common fault with some pattern sets.... i tend to trim them if there is the odd tight one and if chiselled edge then you can use the tile nips to replicate the effect on the cut edge... and once grouted will look great

I was contemplating doing this, as I did it on a slate floor once, was just wondering how the 'doctored' cut edge would look once grouted....I think i'll have a word with the customer & see what they prefer.
I guess it would be better if those 150x150 were actually 150 x 145
Thanks for your inputs folks.

 

[simon1]

Same problem on this one

 

[simon1]

Sorry but had to bath the nippers (guv's orders) hence the extra post.

would take too long to trim and replicate the edge of this one, Roman Opus with 12 tiles to the pattern and 4 would of had to be adjusted.

Dry laid, openning the joints slightly for the customer. They liked it before grouting and loved it after as they could not see what the poblem was

 

[Gazzer]

Sorry but had to bath the nippers

thats going a bit far isnt it? I usually just wipe the adhesive off and give them a squirt of WD40 :smilewinkgrin:

 

[doug boardley]

whenever I've laid chisel edged tiles, I've always put the joints as tight as I dare, as when grouted the joint always looks wider anyway

 

[simon1]

thats going a bit far isnt it? I usually just wipe the adhesive off and give them a squirt of WD40 :smilewinkgrin:

:lol::lol::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[wetdec]

Hi Everyone,
With this kind of travertine being laid in the french pattern, how do you accommodate the smaller square tile in the pattern?
On dry laying the tiles, the smaller square seems to be the one that throws the grout joints out. Am i'm right in saying that the smaller square should be of a slightly different size. If you dry lay them on the floor they with no grout joints they fit perfectly.
Anyone got the solution or will the joints just have to vary?
Many Thanks.

Any stone fixer worth his badge will tell you they are cut smaller for a reason without them smaller it throws your lines everywhere.

If you have a 40x20 and put 2 x 20x20 against the long side you have no grout gap so messes up the pattern.

Each module will have small tiles an equal number of 20x20 & 19x19 (vary depending on pattern) this will then give you the grout line and dictate the spacing for the whole module.

Trick is to sort your small format tiles into 2 piles before you start.

Granted some producers mess it up but its there for a reason and with good trav or stone it works...........

.

 

[peegee tips]

Wetdecs, can you explain what you mean??

The trav that i've been given doesn't have any slightly smaller, small format tiles. They are all exactly half the width of the next size tile up....& so on.

I take it you mean that some suppliers take the pattern into consideration & make the smaller tile " smaller" at the cutting stage & therefore keeping the grout joints regular?

If im barking up the wrong tree then by all means correct me :2thumbsup:

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Any stone fixer worth his badge will tell you they are cut smaller for a reason without them smaller it throws your lines everywhere.

If you have a 40x20 and put 2 x 20x20 against the long side you have no grout gap so messes up the pattern.

Each module will have small tiles an equal number of 20x20 & 19x19 (vary depending on pattern) this will then give you the grout line and dictate the spacing for the whole module.

Trick is to sort your small format tiles into 2 piles before you start.

Granted some producers mess it up but its there for a reason and with good trav or stone it works...........

.

Where's my badge! - Prehaps it got lost in the post.
I think that is what PG tips is trying to explain. The small tiles are all the same size and as you've rightly pointed out it is messing up his pattern.
He must of got them from the same manufacturer that I always seem to get when I purchase this pattern. Funny how they arrive in pre collated sets and yet they still don't fit!
As previously stated a bit of wet saw work is often required.

 

[peegee tips]

Where's my badge! - Prehaps it got lost in the post.
I think that is what PG tips is trying to explain. The small tiles are all the same size and as you've rightly pointed out it is messing up his pattern.
He must of got them from the same manufacturer that I always seem to get when I purchase this pattern. Funny how they arrive in pre collated sets and yet they still don't fit!
As previously stated a bit of wet saw work is often required.

Yep....you got it.

Oh well....I have 2 options, just a bummer its chiselled edge!

Thanks guys, appreciate your feedback.

 

[wetdec]

This explains it showing how you set out Opus pattern (French pattern, Roman pattern) Travertine or stone. If you need to trim small ones then you can see which ones.

Hope it helps

 

[wetdec]

Yep....you got it.

Oh well....I have 2 options, just a bummer its chiselled edge!

Thanks guys, appreciate your feedback.

You wont notice it with chisle edge as the gradient on the edge will take some grout and make it look ok. You should only need a 6/7mm gap as too wide will make it look wrong................


..

 

[peegee tips]

This explains it showing how you set out Opus pattern (French pattern, Roman pattern) Travertine or stone. If you need to trim small ones then you can see which ones.

Hope it helps

Thanks wetdec.....this is where the problem is with the stone I have been given to lay......it contains no 190x190....they're all 200x200!!!

I really appreciate the insight though & will be worth baring in mind on future installs.

Bum-mer!!!

 

[peegee tips]

Hang on am i being thick.....!!!!

When these are supplied do they contain 190x190 & 200x200 or are you just showing which ones need trimming & to what size!!!!

 

[wetdec]

Hang on am i being thick.....!!!!

When these are supplied do they contain 190x190 & 200x200 or are you just showing which ones need trimming & to what size!!!!

True modules are manufactured that size if they are not then its our job to trim them up.

When it first started hitting this country around 16 yrs ago they were cut like that nowadays you will generally find only the good ones are cut that way. Most all of the Jura, Boisvillon,Alitalia, will be cut that way as one of the biggest handlers imports it. Either way seeing the plan and how it should go down will set you up right. Your not thick in fact I would put money on 3/4 of tilers not knowing it they just blame the factories when really its quite simple.............


Not so much of a bummer you just need to take 6/7mm off 2 sides of half ur 20x20's lots better than trimming everything that looks tight you know what your doing now.


..