Encaustic Tile Problem

[JHeff]

Hi All, I'm looking for some advice please.

I went and saw a potential customer last night who has a Fired Earth encaustic floor laid in her hallway (Grau - Encaustic - Wall & Floor Tiles | Fired Earth). Approx 8 sq metres.
The floor has been down about 2 years (not my work) and in my opinion has been laid perfectly, and the customer has always been thrilled with it. About 18 months after the floor was laid the customer decided to have it re-sealed. Not that it needed it she said, but she was following advice she had been given about routine maintenance. She got someone different to come and re-seal it, than who had laid it.
This person stripped the old sealer, and re-sealed with a gloss finish. Customer was not happy with gloss finish, so had it stripped again and sealed with a matt finish. This is where the problem came. After the second (matt) seal had dried, lots of marks appeared all over the floor. See pics. The marks cannot be wiped off, so I don't think it is any residue from the sealer, they seemed to be "burned" into the pigment of the tiles. Maybe perhaps some kind of burn from the stripper that was used. I'm not sure.

Just seeing if anyone has experienced anything like this before, and has any possible solutions. Am I right in thinking the surface of encaustics is particularly delicate? The guy who caused the problems has been back 4 times trying to clean the tiles, with no luck. And the customer is now pursuing an insurance claim from him to have a new floor laid.

She is asking me to re-lay the floor...I'm advising her against encaustic tiles again for her hallway, and also advising just tiling over the top of them, instead of ripping it up and making a mess of her beautiful house.

Any opinions would be great. Thanks.

JHeff

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Looks like the black portion of the tile has been bleached by drops of whatever cleaner/stripper has been used. As this tile is like neat cement it will be deep and I would think unrepairable.

 

[JHeff]

Thanks John, I feared it may be unrepairable, just wanted to hear it from some other people too.
Anyone else have an opinion??

 

[bugs183]

I'm not sure if tiling over the top is the way forward on this JHeff.
I can see your logic here, with the mess and all, but they've had all manner of sealers and strippers on them, it'll be a real struggle to get anything to stick to them with any confidence.
It would be a real shame for the client if they were to have more problems once they thought they'd been solved.

 

[JHeff]

That's an interesting point. My other worry is that they have water UFH, and when I spoke to the builder yesterday, he said the pipes were only 20mm under the surface of the screed! So i'm slightly concerned at ripping up the floor and taking chunks out of the screed in the process, if the tiles have been laid as well as I think they have.

 

[bugs183]

Mmm, dodgy ground!!
It is a risk if the pipes are so close to the top of the screed. Is there a doorway where you could try getting a wide bolster chisel under a tile to see how it lifts. A wider bolster shouldn't sink into the screed as easily, I reckon they may pop up ok.
There is another way and it is quite extreme, but it means you don't remove any tiles, and it will be a bit dusty.
Get an angle grinder (preferably with a vucuum cleaner attachment) with a cupped grinder wheel (they sell them at Tradetiler). Go all over the old tiles, you'll have score into as much of the surface of every tile as you can. Vacuum thoroughly, then apply a water based epoxy primer to the surface, wait till it goes tacky, and apply quartz chippings. Then tile over.
It may be worth getting a full spec of a company such as Mapei who sell all these tiles, but it'll be as solid a job as you can do.
Shame though i bet the customers gutted, and being Fired Earth i bet it didn't come cheap.

 

[andy-p]

There are primers on the market for tiling onto impermeable non absorbent substrates , PCI's primer 303 for example...

 

[bugs183]

It's getting rid of all the sealers thats the main problem, and they will have worked into the tile.

 

[DHTiling]

There are primers on the market for tiling onto impermeable non absorbent substrates , PCI's primer 303 for example...

Or mapei's eco-prim grip... but not that i am condoning over tiling..

 

[andy-p]

I would get the job specced as you say by an adhesive manufacturer to be on the safe side...

 

[bugs183]

Eco Prim Grip is the biz, cracking stuff, plus it has the silica grit in it to aid adhesion.

 

[JHeff]

Thanks guys. Just looked into the Eco Prim Grip, and it looks like that could be an option.

Dave, can I ask why you're not condoning tiling over? Would you take up the tiles bearing in mind the risk to the UFH, and the mess to the house, instead?

 

[DHTiling]

Thanks guys. Just looked into the Eco Prim Grip, and it looks like that could be an option.

Dave, can I ask why you're not condoning tiling over? Would you take up the tiles bearing in mind the risk to the UFH, and the mess to the house, instead?

1: You are tiling to another fixers tiling and do not know how well they are fixed..

2: This is over wet ufh and 2 layers over that will expand at different rates ,thus possibly causing a delamination issue.

3: i cannot see the tiling ripping up the screed, they will break away and most likely leave adhesive residue on the screed..

Only you can see the job at face value and only you can make that executive decision to over tile or not..


On another note, very strange the customer did not contact the first fixer to re-seal and again why the customer did not contact tiler when this second person naffed the floor up..?... seems really strange to me but nothing to do with your side of it, just curious..

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

have you removed the seal from the tiles this looks like he has sealed over the old seal without removing it all .or the floor was not dry in places when resealed .try a water test on the stone to see if all the seal has been removed wipe over with a damp sponge and see what patches are left

 

[swanman]

I do alot of victorian tiling and restoration i think you could still clean them and get rid of the marks it looks a bit like efflorecence which with some sealers i use can get rid of it

Bur never tile over top take up tiles always 20mm under screed is fine just take your time and clean up as you go

 

[JHeff]

1: You are tiling to another fixers tiling and do not know how well they are fixed..

2: This is over wet ufh and 2 layers over that will expand at different rates ,thus possibly causing a delamination issue.

3: i cannot see the tiling ripping up the screed, they will break away and most likely leave adhesive residue on the screed..

Only you can see the job at face value and only you can make that executive decision to over tile or not..


On another note, very strange the customer did not contact the first fixer to re-seal and again why the customer did not contact tiler when this second person naffed the floor up..?... seems really strange to me but nothing to do with your side of it, just curious..

Thanks for reply, all very fair points.

Yes, not sure about the mysterious first tiler.

I think a test removing some tiles is in order, and if they come up easily / with little damage, then I'll go for a full removal.

Does anyone else have an opinion of using encaustics in a high traffic area of a house, for a family with young children?

 

[Turkish tiler]

Thanks for reply, all very fair points.

Yes, not sure about the mysterious first tiler.

I think a test removing some tiles is in order, and if they come up easily / with little damage, then I'll go for a full removal.


Does anyone else have an opinion of using encaustics in a high traffic area of a house, for a family with young children?

before you make a decision why do't you call lithofin tec help line of LTP tec help line ask them, you don't know what cleaner previous tiler has used. he might sealed tiles before it has been dry or used excess sealer has not wiped off.
try it one more time then make a final decision

 

[JHeff]

Update:

The customer has decided to go for a full removal and re-lay through the insurance company!