Floor tile repair

[lena]

Greatly appreciate comments on the following:


We have a problem with noise in ground floor tiles laid in kitchen and hall about 20 months ago. The tiles give a loud “walking on sand” noise when stepped upon and some move very slightly. No tiles or grout are cracked or broken. The tiles sound hollow when tapped.

Floor make up: block & beam floor; 75mm celotex insulation; 75mm screed with fibers laid over underfloor heating (liquid); Detra-matting; Mythos Dorato ceramic tiles; flexible adhesive grout used.

Is there any way to repair the floor without lifting and relaying tiles? Is a “drill and resin fill under tiles” method effective? Are there any businesses in the UK using this method of repair?

Thank you very much.

 

[charlie1]

Sorry but your floor has failed and will need completely replaced!

 

[Gazzer]

The drill and inject method seems to be doing the trick. Are you sure it is Ditra ?

 

[Andrew Case]

Hi Lena
And welcome to the forum.
I cannot help you on the resin fill - for me, i would lift and relay. It sounds like the tiles have either been Dot & dabbed in place or even if a full adhesive bed was laid, there wasnt 100% contact with the tiles. That would leave spaces underneath the tiles and its only a matter of time before cracks appear.
Depending on how big an area we are talking about, and how much you want to spend of course.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I'am in the same line as Sir Ramic - there is an epoxy resin injection process that is being used where uncoupling membranes have failed, and I'am led to believe it is a solution. However you must check the make of uncoupling that was used and take it up with your supplier first.
You mention a fibre enhanced 75mm screed - but of what material?

 

[Ajax123]

I too am of the sir ramic mind. It does not sound like a dot and dab and does not necessarily need to be lifted and re laid.there are companies who can resin inject between the grout lines and reinstate the bond with the floor. When you dismay ditra matting....this would be unusual as I am not aware of any failures with this mat. Do yo know what colour it was .... Blue, yellow, black this will tell us which manufacturer it was and give a clue as to whether it is another of quite a few failures on some of the mats.

 

[charlie1]

Never heard of resin injection but if I understand it right, the resin fills the void where the failure occured. What will stop this happening again and again? The most probable reason will be movment, in this case I can't see how injection of resin will fix long term imo

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Charlie - the problems that are coming to light is with reference to some uncoupling membranes coming apart.
The story as I have been informed revolves around a German factory who manufactured the membrane having an issue with the glue/bonding of the 2 layers that form the mat.
The adhesive used; and in my ongoing case Weber, has fixed the mat to the floor and to the tile itself but the mat has come apart causing movement in the tiling and crunching under feet!
The repair process involves drilling 2mm holes through the grout and injecting a fluid epoxy resin which in turn flows through the gap in the membrane until a particular area is full, and is repeated across the whole floor. It's an expensive process to take on and will have to be cost effective to undertake!
The questions earlier asked with respect to the OP membrane and Ditra was because to my knowledge this is not one of the companies which have this problem.
I believe for this injection process to work the floor has to be in an almost perfect condition (apart from the noise) as the liquid flow will set under any undulations and set the tiles in that position when hardened.
In the contract that we undertook, not only has the movement caused tiles to 'lift' but 3 corners have been chipped and as there are only 4 spare tiles (600x600mm = 2mt+) to replace almost 10sq mts before any injection can be done is NOT an option.
It is understandably - ON GOING.

 

[Ajax123]

Never heard of resin injection but if I understand it right, the resin fills the void where the failure occured. What will stop this happening again and again? The most probable reason will be movment, in this case I can't see how injection of resin will fix long term imo

The bond between the resin and the interface materials is about 100 times stronger than the bond between adhesive and mat and mat to screed..... It's basically likes ticking your tiles down with araldite. I think dural have pretty much perfected the injection system although I understand they are still learning themselves.

 

[Ajax123]

Tile Repair - YouTube

Here is a video of it being done..... No mat on this one just a bog standard tile failure. I think this is an acrylic resin but same sort of system

 

[charlie1]

Thanks for shedding light on that, will certainly watch the video later when I have internet access!

We live and learn !