Is the customer always right? movement joints!

[turnip]

Now, I expect most of you here have a set of terms and conditions which your "domestic" customers must accept when you work for them. I am big on movement joints especially internal corners and especially vertical internal corners in shower areas. (you might guess where this is going). My domestic customers accept my terms and conditions, movement joints explicitly mentioned and explained at survey stage.
All good so far? you'd think so! Two out of my last four customers phone up after a day or two, "why isnt the grouting finished? when are you going to finish?". "my friend/dad/builder/neighbour is a tiler and says these should be grouted". One customer has a shower been tiled about 1-3 years ago I reckon, no internal vertical Silicon joint, cracked of course, not my business, pointed out by myself as the reason why we have a Silicon joint and dont use grout there. theyre just not interested, so I'll throw away my city and guilds and forget about 10s of thousands of hours on site because theyre not worth owt! Well they have accepted my t+c's and thats that. cant help you.
Which makes me think:
1. why does everyone know better than a time-served qualified tiler?
2. why would someone employ a professional and then tell them how to do their job?
3. why would you accept someones t+c's then act ignorant?

 

[turnip]

hang on I havent finished, dont know what happened there......so who else is coming across this sort of thing? I have been out of the domestic scene for several years but never had this sort of problem before! Are customers looking to play "building contractors" and try to push around trades ? Oh, and dont get me started about plasterers, how difficult is it to get a wall flat and plumb?

 

[DHTiling]

OH!! the joys of bieng a tile installer....:smilewinkgrin:...

Why tell them they need movement joints in the corners etc...i don't , i just do it anyway and then tell them if they ask...it's part and parcel of my installations .....

 

[eamonn06]

hi there

i feeel your pain. customers always know better. and for a plasterer trying to straghting a wall, one word NIGHTMARE.green plasterboard tile backer all day long

 

[smurf21]

Im with Dave here Just do it and tell them nowt you know its the right thing to do you start telling them they need this that and the other they think your trying to bump the price up i allways used to tell my domestics why NMP was better on the floor than ply and it was such a chore trying to explain it all now i just quote it in and say nwt if they ask what it is i give em a leaflet from my supplier.

 

[White Room]

Again the same, to much information for the customer to digest. Just get on with it and hope there's not to many back seat drivers.

 

[Ajax123]

I also come across this scenario all the time with my field of work i.e. anhydrite floor screeds. People use it cos they don't want cracks in the screed (they read "less prone to cracking" as "will never crack under any curcumstances whtever you do and wherever you put it") Obviously all screeds move and as a large part of my work is around heated screeds the movment is even worse. they choose the screed then ask me to design it for them and then get shirty when I tell them they need movement joints at vertain points.
I put it down to real rooms and other such programs cos they give people a little bit of knowledge. Unfortunatley, as entertaining as Grand Designs may be it don't make up for, as you say, time served training and expertise.
There is a requirement in law that any supplier of a specialist prodct or service e.g. tiling that you must ensure that your client is made fully aware of the requirements for special conditions e.g. Silicon joints, and the implications of them not being used .e.g. the grout will crack and the tile can fail due to moisture ingress. Provided you do that (and I suggest in writing in the contract conditions) then you are pretty much covered. If they ignore best practice that is up to them. Once people are making an informed decision they will rarely ignore good advice. However as said specialist supplier you cannot lawfully extract your self from giving said advice with a simple disclaimer because if you have failed to give the necessary advice you may be considered negligent. I guess the best thing would be to put in writing why the joints should be Silicon, why they will not work if they are not done and aske them to confirm if they want it done or not.
Obviously it is a difficult time in the construction game but I always try to stick to the principal that I would rather walk away from a job if the customer insists that he is going to ignore advice on the basis that there is a good chance it wil go ewrong and land on mydesk later as a cmplaint.

 

[Olz]

Dont take this the wrong way mate, but i have to clarfiy that you do actually Silicon the movement gap you leave in the internal corner for the customer?

How do they know there is no grout when the corner is siliconed, surley even if you had grouted and then siliconed over the top (which i dont recommend) they wouldnt know if there was grout or not.

Are you leaving the corners empty for them to Silicon after?

Maybe i've read your post wrong.

 

[Fekin]

I think telling\explaining to a customer about too many things causes far more hassle than keeping stum and just getting on with doing a propper job.

I found out to my expense, tell'em too much info and you get bombarded with "but why not do it like this" and "my mate bog roll ronnie didn't do his mums best friends aunts niece's bathroom like that, and he's been a carpet fitter for 40 years"

Tell them you'll stick'em on the walls and leave it at that , and if they ask why you did it like that, tell them "coz I did, aieet mucker :mad2:

 

[Ajax123]

I think telling\explaining to a customer about too many things causes far more hassle than keeping stum and just getting on with doing a propper job.

I found out to my expense, tell'em too much info and you get bombarded with "but why not do it like this" and "my mate bog roll ronnie didn't do his mums best friends aunts niece's bathroom like that, and he's been a carpet fitter for 40 years"

Tell them you'll stick'em on the walls and leave it at that , and if they ask why you did it like that, tell them "coz I did, aieet mucker :mad2:

Bog Roll Ronnie.......LMAO

Sorry all I had a bit of a mini rant back there what I meant to say was if what you are doing is considered by the industry as best practice then do it cos it will work. If the customer disagrees or says that is not what he wants then yu explain why he really does want it. If he still disagrees tell him to get bog roll ronnie in to stick carpets on the wall instead. (obviously in a polite way)

 

[CJ CERAMICS]

with dave on this one i do it and if they ask (which most dont) then i explain why.

 

[turnip]

har har, it must have been too sunny yesters, came in steaming, anyhow, i was sort of looking for some kind of answer from on high, then it kind of struck me, why not use schluter eke profile or something like that (cos the plasterer didnt get the corners plumb!), seriously though its just two try-it-on 'ers in a week. I try to let the customer know exactly what and why each product is used, (I dont do Silicon, but I pass on the number of a pro sealant-man), and why things are done in a certain way. why? I hope that mrs jones is put at ease because the tiler knows what he is doing and why he is doing it. My terms and conditions are clear enough, I think once they see how much mr mastic charges they want grout in for free!
Silly season started? dunno, mrs jones happy today, plenty tea, back on site in a week or so thank god.