Kitchen Tiling am I on track

[Riverside]

Hello Everyone,

I am tackling my kitchen floor as the last act of my kitchen remodel job.

I have taken the easy option of leaving the exciting tiles in place, I laid them myself 6 years ago and they are stuck down unbelievable well.

I've had to remove two that had a little high point on their edge as my tiling was amazing back then and it took a fair bit of work to get them to shift.

I have removed and re-sited and replaced my kitchen base units already as I couldn't move out the whole family and I was only able to afford the work in stages, so I'm working around the new kitchen.

I have SLC'd the now exposed areas of floor that were not tiled, when I first moved in I tiled up to and under the cabinets legs under the plinth.

Here is where I would like your knowledge and advice please.

I am thinking of using BAL apd primer and Ardex large format addy because my exciting creamic tile is very matt and the new tile is 450 square.

Would anyone be able to recommend these products, I'm in Ireland so most good products are available if you do the leg work.

Cost is an issue as I'm at the pin of my collar with regards my budget.

Many kind Regards,

Riverside

 

[bugs183]

Hiya Riverside.
Mmm.
I'd remove the old tiles as tiles are not a good substrate to tile too. Especially as (no respect meant here) a non professional guy laid them, they may not be as well stuck as you think.
If you don't/won't then i wouldn't prime with APD primer as it's not actually going to do anything in this situation, and certainly don't mix manufacturers by going to Ardex.
If you have to leave them down, you can prime with Mapei EcoPrimT, and use Mapei adhesives above, or slurry the tiles with BAl Bond and Bal Rapid Set Flexible mixed together, then tile above with Bal Rapidset adhesives.

 

[Riverside]

Thanks for the reply.

They really are welded down though, I had to kango a number of them up when I was putting is my new steel pillars that support the three floors above.

It maddening that you have just given me completely opposite advice than the tile speciality store here in cork.

That lad rang BAL in England and gave me their advice.

Which is why I ask here as the range of options is very large.

The only unavailable option is lifting the old tile, that's a complete no go with my Missus, since every place I went with her to pick the new tile, we were advised tile over tile.

Again the standard of tiling advice in the Area for non pro's is fairly poor

 

[bugs183]

Well to be fair BAL technical are very good. I find it odd they would recommend APD to prime over tiles, there is no mention of it here:

BAL Adhesives - Products - prime APD.

It looks like lifting them is a no go, so if you have BAL in your area, i'd slurry with neat Rapid Set flexible grey and Bal Bond. Skim this across the surface of the old tiles, Allow overnight to dry.

 

[Brian the Tile]

go off what bal are telling you they have been making adhesive for a long time

 

[bugs183]

Seriously Riverside the advise by Bal to apply APD direct to a tile floor does not sound correct to me.
Bal APD is for porous surfaces, i've been using BAL products since the 80's and this is a new one on me.
Balusually advise the addition of Bal AD1 add mix to the adhesive for tiling over tiles:

http://files.building-adhesives.com...B & C Technical Data Sheets/BAL_Admix_AD1.pdf

On the attachment is the Bal Tech number, i'd phone them again to confirm what you've been told, and if they say yes you can use APD then get them to email you the spec, then you have their spec to back you up.

 

[Riverside]

Thanks for that bugs I'll ring them tomorrow myself, get it from the horses mouth so to speak,

I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers

 

[Riverside]

Oh what thickness would you make the slurry bugs, if I got it up thin wouldn't it crack and go to powder

 

[bugs183]

Rightio, no worries. Defo ring them to check, and to prove me wrong maybe!!!!
I reckon Bal will say add AD1 to your adhesive, this will get expensive. See what they say about slurrying. I tend to use the Mapei EcoPrimT as i know it works.
That slurry won't crack, neat SBR and Rapid set really sticks, Bal may even say mix rapid set and AD1 for the slurry mix.
Just trowel it thin, really scratch it onto the surface of the tiles, to make sure it keys with a trowel.

- - - Updated - - -

Rightio, no worries. Defo ring them to check, and to prove me wrong maybe!!!!
I reckon Bal will say add AD1 to your adhesive, this will get expensive. See what they say about slurrying. I tend to use the Mapei EcoPrimT as i know it works.
That slurry won't crack, neat SBR and Rapid set really sticks, Bal may even say mix rapid set and AD1 for the slurry mix.
Just trowel it thin, really scratch it onto the surface of the tiles, to make sure it keys with a trowel.

 

[Riverside]

I was on the phone to a very nice guy today in Dunlop/Ardex in England, he recommends because if the non porous very matt finish in the tile that a 1:1 mix using their flexiable additive and water while using the normal mixing guide for their large format tile addy should be fine.

I take it the non porous nature of my tiles would or could cause a skin to form if I used a bonding agent design for porous tiles.

So that's the way to proceed for me.

I am going to scuff the surface a little using a flapper disc and wire brush just to provide a extra key.

What do you feel about that?

 

[bugs183]

Hiya Riveride.

So the tech guy said what i thought he would, use their admix in the adhesive.
If thats what he said then go for it.
I dunno where your man got the idea for APD from, i'm positive it would have failed.
Good job you checked!!

 

[Riverside]

Absolutely bugs, it one of the reasons I checked here, you lads are pro tilers and in the know.

It's always better from the horses mouth.

Would you go ahead with roughing the surface or tiles as normal?

The makers man didn't say anything about laying a skim of the addy mix first though, he said just tile away.

 

[bugs183]

Nice one!
If you don't mind some dust and noise them grinding the top lightly will certainly help, vacuum up any dust tho.
As Bal say just mix the admix with the water and mix this with the adhsive.
I'd get the flat edge of a floor trowel and skim the adhesive flat over the tiles, turn the trowel over and then comb the adhesive as normal.
I'd use at least an 8mm u notch trowel and if the new tiles are porcelain, put a skim of adhesive on the back of the tile, agian with the flat edge of the tile.
Clean the tiles well as you go as this adhesive will be very sticky.
Enjoy!

 

[Riverside]

I'll let you know how I go and I'll post pics of the finished project.

At least if I make a bags of it I won't have to worry about getting overfed at Christmas as my wife will make me homeless, lol.