Making the jump from domestic to commercial.

[DanEwen]

Hi guys, after some advice. Am just a sole trader and work on my own. Recently I have just completed 62 student accommodation units, although I hate that type of work the possibilities it can bring for my family and me have got me thinking.

At the minuet I do all domestic bathrooms, kitchens etc for a number of bathroom, kitchen and building companies and I enjoy it. I would like to keep doing myself but the money that can be made and also the security of long term contracts in the commercial sector have got me wanting more.

But at the minuet I feel am in a catch 22 situation. Where I need man power to secure bigger contracts, but at this minuet in time I don't have enough work to employ more man power.

I am looking for advice off people on how to transition into this. Another thing also is I have built my reputation of the quality and speed of my work how do you find other hard working and quality tilers ? I guess this is just trial and error. But if you take someone and they drop you in the rubbish.

Another question how do you price for bigger companies ? the student accommodation I mentioned I got in through a friend who has a dry lining company.

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. No negative comments please nobody needs that.

Many thanks
Dan

 

[Andy Allen]

Why no negative comments.....??
Reading your post I had plenty to say, having employed up to 10 subcontract tilers in the 80,s, doing large commercial contracts and housing sites.....
However some of it was negative, so if all you want to hear is how its all a bed of roses then your not getting the full picture..
Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick.
But in imo, all advice can be good advice, negative or not...

 

[Dumbo]

Speak to your bank manager . Most people that phone me tell me how good it all is and how competitive they are when all I asked is what is your payment terms . Eventually they tell me 30 day end of month invoice to which I say not interested. ( don't see why I should bank roll their business . They can speak to the bank about a loan )

 

[DanEwen]

Negative as in “ you will never be able to do it” “your getting ahead of yourself”

Am not looking for the easy way either am looking for the right way. Hence the reason I have turned to here.

I have no one to talk to about this kind of thing. Am trying to better myself and the life of my family.

 

[DanEwen]

Speak to your bank manager . Most people that phone me tell me how good it all is and how competitive they are when all I asked is what is your payment terms . Eventually they tell me 30 day end of month invoice to which I say not interested. ( don't see why I should bank roll their business . They can speak to the bank about a loan )

Am going to schedule a meeting with the bank and see how they can assist me. Some of the companies I do work for have a two week turn around and I don’t mind it as long as I know in advance.

 

[Blunt Tool]

Take on and train up an apprentice, learn him how to grout first so that you can just keep tiling ahead of him. He will be as good as the person that trains him and sure there are still apprenticeship schemes to help cover his wages.

 

[DanEwen]

Take on and train up an apprentice, learn him how to grout first so that you can just keep tiling ahead of him. He will be as good as the person that trains him and sure there are still apprenticeship schemes to help cover his wages.

Good advice thanks callatiler. I have had a 20yr start and quit said it wasn’t for him and had a 16yr straight out of school that didn’t want to come back as was to phisical .... need to get in touch with the local college would be better having an apprentice that has already started college and is interested. Thanks

 

[Andy Allen]

From my experience employing people is a nightmare...... There are the exceptions, good reliable tradesmen that turn up on time do an excellent job with minimal fuss and supervision, however most of them are working for themselves.
then there's the always late, if they ever turn up, do a half *** job tradesmen.
Fact is no one will care as much about your business as you.
We ended up going callatiler route and trained up some young lads.... One of which is still tiling to this day in Germany and I catch up with him on Facebook now and again..
To tender for large contracts you have to contact them to ask to go on to there list of main contractors......
Be warned you have retentions to consider, full PLI for your company and employees, materials to sort out and price, wages to fund, and all of this while waiting weeks/months to be paid.

I went the opposite route to the one your considering....... From running and working on large contracts and housing sites, to tiling Mrs Jones 4m2 metro kitchen...... And I've never been happier!!

hence my comment about negative feedback...... Not saying don't go for it just be assured it's not all abed of roses..

 

[Dave Mitchell]

I think the private or self builds are best I ll do big tiling jobs I did a 400 m2 pool in 8 weeks plus private jobs on my own 9 years ago nearly killed me but good experience lol older u get easier u want it lol staff are pain in the doings too !!!!!

 

[DanEwen]

From my experience employing people is a nightmare...... There are the exceptions, good reliable tradesmen that turn up on time do an excellent job with minimal fuss and supervision, however most of them are working for themselves.
then there's the always late, if they ever turn up, do a half *** job tradesmen.
Fact is no one will care as much about your business as you.
We ended up going callatiler route and trained up some young lads.... One of which is still tiling to this day in Germany and I catch up with him on Facebook now and again..
To tender for large contracts you have to contact them to ask to go on to there list of main contractors......
Be warned you have retentions to consider, full PLI for your company and employees, materials to sort out and price, wages to fund, and all of this while waiting weeks/months to be paid.

I went the opposite route to the one your considering....... From running and working on large contracts and housing sites, to tiling Mrs Jones 4m2 metro kitchen...... And I've never been happier!!

hence my comment about negative feedback...... Not saying don't go for it just be assured it's not all abed of roses..

Thanks for the information I appreciate it. To start with I will have to take on subbys for contracts so can let got once the contract is finished. Or if I get another contact can move them onto there. Also don't want to be paying holidays and sick days to start with. Definitely going to look to train someone up. Hopefully when my son comes of age he will want to get into the business.

Am still young (33) so am hungry and want to push myself to see what I can achieve. Just need some guidance from time to time. It sounds vein but I am very much money driven so will push myself to do better. Materials, price, wages etc doesn't faze me getting the right work force is my main concern. But I guess like most things its trial and error. Just a daunting step forward really. But if I don't take chances how will I ever progress ....

Like I say I appreciate your input

 

[DanEwen]

I think the private or self builds are best I ll do big tiling jobs I did a 400 m2 pool in 8 weeks plus private jobs on my own 9 years ago nearly killed me but good experience lol older u get easier u want it lol staff are pain in the doings too !!!!!

This is something I personally I would love to do with an apprentice. I love doing the higher end spec tiling. The contract stuff I would ideally like to put lads on. I have a training day with Schulter at the end of the month about leaning how to use all there new products.

Thanks for your input mate

 

[DanEwen]

Take on and train up an apprentice, learn him how to grout first so that you can just keep tiling ahead of him. He will be as good as the person that trains him and sure there are still apprenticeship schemes to help cover his wages.

Could you point me in the right direction about this funding for wages ? I have found information about funding for training but not wages.

Thanks

 

[Blunt Tool]

Could you point me in the right direction about this funding for wages ? I have found information about funding for training but not wages.

Thanks

Look into nhbc apprenticeship schemes and local apprenticeship schemes, your local job centre will point you in the right direction.

 

[Dumbo]

Don't forget you will be involved in paying your subby's tax and also if you are doing all this work it is not going to take you long to cross the vat threshold . So you will be doing quarterly vat returns .

 

[DanEwen]

Don't forget you will be involved in paying your subby's tax and also if you are doing all this work it is not going to take you long to cross the vat threshold . So you will be doing quarterly vat returns .

Thanks jcrtiling. I have already spoke to my accountant about the vat situation. As for the subby’s tax if they are self employed is it not up to them to pay tax ? Some company’s I work for pay my tax (cis payments) others don’t I just pay it. Would it not be the same ?
Thanks