Mapei Keraquick won't set?

[Futuregrout]

Hi all

I need to put down a small amount of backerboard and a few tiles at the end of my kitchen. I put down a thin layer of adhesive last night (5mm say) to build up the level a bit so I could stick down the backerboard and tiles today. It used keraquick with latex plus but 10-11 hours later, and it's still soft.

A few facts that might come in handy:

I bought the adhesive and latex in May, when I ordered three of each
I used the other two bags and two latex to tile the main part of the kitchen in May. It worked brilliantly, and went off in a few hours.
It has since been stored in my shed.
The adhesive was still a fine powder when I mixed it, and it seemed to mix well. I mixed it in the correct quantities (I'm obsessive about this sort of thing and use digital scales to make sure!)

So, I guess I want to know:

It has been over 10 hours since I put it down, and it's like paste. Will harden eventually, or is it useless?

Is it worth trying again with the same bag, which has now been in the house overnight?

I've also got some BAL white star in the shed - obviously not as good as the powdered stuff, but is that OK for floor tiling? I just want to get this thing finished and could do without spending more money on adhesive for a few tiles!

Thanks

 

[Gazzer]

You mixed with latex ? and was this stored in the shed at the recent sub zero temps ?
What is the date on the bag ?

 

[Futuregrout]

Yes, and yes. Just checked date... July 2012. Hmm. I thought I could store it for 12 months. For what it is worth, the bag and latex were both unopened when I stored them.

 

[Gazzer]

Yeah but is that the use by date seeing as you said you bought it in May ?

 

[Gazzer]

And I would expect the cold has got to the latex anyway.

 

[DHTiling]

The date is nearly always the manufacture date.. so 12 months from that, but you bought it in may. ?..

The cold will not effect the latex unless it was frozen.. i am inclined to say it is the adhesive...

Also how cold was it in the room over night.. ?

 

[Futuregrout]

I think I may have my timings wrong here - sorry. I actually did the kitchen floor in September, so the July 2012 must be the "born" date.

If the cold has got to the latex, does this mean it is totally unusable? It has been in the house overnight, so might it be OK again now?

If not, do you think the adhesive itself is still OK if mixed with water?

Thanks!

 

[Futuregrout]

The date is nearly always the manufacture date.. so 12 months from that, but you bought it in may. ?..

The cold will not effect the latex unless it was frozen.. i am inclined to say it is the adhesive...

Also how cold was it in the room over night.. ?

Sorry, see above - I got my tiling projects mixed up! I actually bought it in September, which makes more sense.

I've had the heating on overnight and whilst there is no radiator near the area I put the adhesive down, it would have been about 19 overnight.

 

[DHTiling]

Too much latex to adhesive ratio will effect the setting,

What is the substrate you are going to be sticking this board to. ?

Keraquick is a C2FT/S1 so is ok for timber substrates and you would be fixing the boards down as well anyway... so ye just use the adhesive for in filling under the boards.

 

[Gazzer]

http://www.mapei.com/public/GB/products/114_Latex Plus_UK.PDF

 

[Futuregrout]

Too much latex to adhesive ratio will effect the setting,

What is the substrate you are going to be sticking this board to. ?

Keraquick is a C2FT/S1 so is ok for timber substrates and you would be fixing the boards down as well anyway... so ye just use the adhesive for in filling under the boards.

Thanks. The board is going to go partly over a cement floor, and partly over a floorboard. I am going to be doing some other tiling today as well though in a different area - do you think I need a new bag of adhesive?

 

[DHTiling]

Thanks. The board is going to go partly over a cement floor, and partly over a floorboard. I am going to be doing some other tiling today as well though in a different area - do you think I need a new bag of adhesive?

How big an area is this.?

 

[Futuregrout]

Tiny - about 15cm by 120cm. It is a long story: We have an opening between the kitchen and the dining room. I was going to put up a wall and a door to keep the kitchen noise in, but we are moving so I won't bother now. As I was intending to put up a wall, I never put in the last row of tiles in the kitchen - I was going to put the wall in and tile up to that. So, I've got maybe 15cm of backerboard still showing on the kitchen floor. The kitchen floor is on a concrete base. I want to put a full tile in the entrance to the kitchen rather than tile up to the edge of the existing backer board, so want to put a strip of backerboard in the entrance to the kitchen. It will partly go over the concrete kitchen floor, and over one floorboard. The tiling will then be in line with the entrance to the kitchen. So it is really small- 4 tiles wide, and about half a tile deep.

 

[DHTiling]

Ok , cannot say whether it will not crack at the point of substrate change but that choice is yours...

 

[Alan.P]

As Dave says, may have issues with expansion where the two substrates meet, is it possible to have an expansion joint ( same colour silicone as grout ) along this juncture, hard to tell with no pictures, and even then, only guess work as to if you'll get a problem, just looking ahead.

 

[Futuregrout]

Thanks both. I agree it is not ideal by any means, but I'm just trying to make the best of it so I can finish off the floor and sell the house. I get the feeling you guys think I'm doing it wrong... would I be better getting a leveling compound instead, rather than trying to stick down a backerboard?

The kitchen bit is actually the smaller of the tiling jobs I need to do today. I've also got about 4m2 to do in another room (where substrate is no problem), and I was hoping to use my Keraquick to do that. The stuff is supposed to go off in a few minutes so rather than asking you lot to work out whether it is knackered, I'll just do a small test here instead.

 

[DHTiling]

All we can do is advise how it should be done and not a quick fix.. if you use say marmox board, you might be ok but we cannot see how / if any deflection is there..

The main point is that timber expands at a different rate to the screed side, so this creates a point of stress.. this can transfer to the tile above and crack at that point..

You are selling the property , so it is your choice if you wish to finish it to sell and look good for now.

hope the advice helps.

 

[Futuregrout]

Thanks, David. As you say, I'm selling so I don't want to spend a fortune here which is why I was hoping to do it with the stuff I already had in the shed. On the other hand, I hate the idea of doing a bad job and leaving someone else with a problem to fix in 12 months time. The board I was using was aquapanel 12,5mm.

The floorboard is very solid, but I can't pretend I've done any proper test for deflection.

The easiest option is just to tile to the end of the existing backerboard. It will mean a half-tile on the entrance to the kitchen which will look a bit crap, but at least it will be solid - I might just do that.

 

[Peter]

Heard quite a few stories about Keraquick and Latex Plus taking a very long time to set. Worst one was 18 hours, and when the rep came out a few days later it had set and he said there was no problem with it.