Ply or not?

[GazLC81]

Hi guys,

I'm a little bit confused here. I have just been reading a thread about tiling a bathroom floor and it was reccomended that he should tile straight onto the floorboards using fastflex.

I have read load of other threads on here say that you MUST ply out using at least 12mm ply.

I did a job on Monday/Tuesday and part of it was the floor. I put 12mm ply down, bonded with bal bond and used a single part flex. Could I have skipped the plying out and laid with fast flex for the same result.

I am mainly wondering as I am doing a hallway next week. The floor is currently floorboards, all in really good condition and flat and well fixed down. I had planned on putting down 12mm ply and tiling onto that. Do I need to or do I just use fastflex.

Cheers Gaz

 

[grumpygrouter]

Just done a couple of bathroom floors with Fastflex supplied by the builder. Have to say that I was not comfortable doing it and warned him that the movement in the floor was the source of possible problems in the future. I found fastflex horrible stuff to use and would have prefered to board out and use a single part flexi. Though fastflex is expensive stuff and can apparantly work out cheaper. Everyone says you have to work clean but even though I am a clean tiler, I found it incredibly difficult not to get it all over the place! Added to that, you are able (apparantly) to grout after three hours, but I found that there was still movement in the tiles after 3 hours so left the grouting until next day. Thereby lies the next problem, making sure your grout lines are clean............

As said in a previous post, I hate the stuff with a passion!!!!:icon8:

 

[DHTiling]

i always ply out floors.....i dont trust just tiling onto floorboards and never have.. despite what adhesive manufactures recommend.. i use what i know works with no comebacks...
so dont worry gaz you use what you know you can trust..best to walk away from a job knowing it will be ok........dave....

 

[GazLC81]

Thanks guys, I think I will stick to plying out as you suggest. I am more confident doing that.

Gaz

 

[McP77]

IMHO Fastflex is brilliant. You don't need to fetch the ply, cut it, screw it down. You don't get the step that you get with using ply (which should be at least 15mm).

I also thought that before tiling with either fastflex or plying out that you had to eleminate verticle movement in the floor - therefore there shouldn't be any movement to cause possible problems in the future.

Out of interest DH have you done any fastflex straight onto floors or do you just not like the idea of it? (I'm not having a pop here or anything just curious)

 

[scrubmuncher]

I've never used it myself, always ply out, mainly because of the horror stories I hear about the stuff. And plying out is always easy money.

 

[grumpygrouter]

IMHO Fastflex is brilliant. You don't need to fetch the ply, cut it, screw it down. You don't get the step that you get with using ply (which should be at least 15mm).

I also thought that before tiling with either fastflex or plying out that you had to eleminate verticle movement in the floor - therefore there shouldn't be any movement to cause possible problems in the future.

Out of interest DH have you done any fastflex straight onto floors or do you just not like the idea of it? (I'm not having a pop here or anything just curious)

You are of course absolutely right about making the floor move as little as possible, unfortunately for me, the builder had already procured 2 bags of fastflex for his house he desparately wanted his customer to pay him for so he wasn't much interested in having the job done in line with my suggestions. I personally don't like trying to trowel on something akin to whipped cream, I somehow found it a bit disconcerting it being that soft. When the tiles were applied it just seemed to sink into the adhesive, which squirted out of the grout lines every where (good for full coverage I know). No matter how much I tried to keep it clean the stuff got everywhere. Sponges seemed impossible to rinse out properly and on the second floor, I resorted to using an old sponge that I just threw away. I wasn't ruining anymore of the brilliant Hydro sponges from trade tiler cos I couldn't get all the adhesive out of them when used with fastflex.

Each to their own but I will avoid using it if I can.

 

[DHTiling]

i have used fast flex on alot of occasions i.e. floating floors ( plyed first ). dont get me wrong i always use bal products and have done for many years.... but the thought of tiling onto brand new softwood floor boards makes me cringe... they haven't become accustomed to room atmospherics if laid new for tiling..causing them to twist and shrink slightly... this is not an overnight process...
My problem i suppose is i'm what you call old school tiler.. i use new products and old methods aswell......fastflex does work on floorboards i know but there is nothing wrong with just making sure....peace of mind i suppose.....
plus another thing to weigh up is the cost of fastflex against plying out......i can ply/fix with normal flex cheaper than using fastflex alone......but every one has there own preferance's........dave....

 

[McP77]

Know what you mean about the sponges. I use an old sponge scourer when it's no good for washing up anymore and just throw it away.

 

[Fekin]

Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but I thought it was better than starting a new one for just one or replies.

When plying out, is there any perticularmake of ply you use, or is ply all the same ?

 

[Varley]

Marine ply, Best off with backerboard, less of a step up .

I never tile directly to floorboards for the very same reasons Dave mentioned in his post.

 

[GazLC81]

Thanks for all the replies chaps, it's something I could never get my head round. I have seen that many different replies on the plying out subject and got confused as to what I should really be doing.

I now realise that there is no particular right or wrong way of doing it, plying is fine and so is fastflex.... it's just deciding what you prefer yourself.

I think I will continue to ply out for the peace of mind. I'll try fastflex at some point jusy to see what it is like, probably on my own house or something.

Just another quick one, Varley reminded me of this one, what are the tile backer boards? I have heard these mention before too.

Cheers
Gaz

 

[DHTiling]

hi there gaz mate......backer boards are water resistant cementious panels......heres a couple of video links showing the installation methods...

[DLMURL="http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=769334662&channel=769302578"]Installing concrete backer board - Brightcove[/DLMURL]

Hometime.com | How-To Video Guide

 

[GazTech]

plying out is also a good way of making extra money too,and it will strengthen the floor

 

[GazLC81]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the links Dave.

I have just been to topps and got all the stuff for the job. I saw the backerboards they sell there and ask the guy behind the counter about them. He asid the 6mm ones were for floors and would be just as good as using 12mm ply. They do seem very rigid and will mean I don't have to worry about resizing the front door.

Are these any good? I'm sure Gaz@Topps knows..... hopefully he will see this post.

I am starting the job tomorrow.

Gaz