removing 5 cracked tiles with heating wires underneath

[nelson]

Hi Everyone,
I got a call last week and went round to a very nice flat near to me.They had a polished tile floor in the living room and about 5/6 of the tiles (large format) were cracked in different places around the room.He said he had five spare tiles and would I be able to replace the cracked ones.It was wasn't a very good tile job in the first place as there was little or no grout used (some almost butted up) and joints which were out.Anyway, he then said there was underfloor heating which they didn't want damaged.So I got a bit nervous then and backed out explaining the reason for cracking was movement and I didn't want to go open a can of worms for myself and go about with a hammer and chisel only to get blamed for damaging the heating wires underneath.They understood this.I've never actually put down underfloor heating, was I right to back away? or would it have been reletively easy?

regards,

Paul

 

[doug boardley]

Paul, I think you were right, and for the right reasons. The chances are that you would damage the ufh and also the tiles would probably crack again in future due to poor installation initially.

 

[Scott]

~It is difficult but UFH can be repaired if it gets damaged.

It sounds like you did the right thing though as the grout spacing is too small and this is probably the main problem. The UFH heating will only compound the expansion problem and will most likely go again if the space is too small.

If it had just been the UFH you were worried about and the floor was a good one, would you still have worried about doing it?

Edit: Doug beat me to it

 

[Aspect Tiling]

I would want to know if a slc was layed over the heating wires. If it was I would be happy to lift the existing tiles and replace. If no slc was used and the wires are inbedded in the tile adhesive I would walk away too due to the risk of damaging the wires. There are wire repair kits so you could explain the risks to the customer and repair if necessary at an extra cost but I would personally still walk.

 

[nelson]

yes I did think that because I know the wires are bedded in with adhesive usually ( I've never done it myself) but what is this slc? a protective layer?

 

[doug boardley]

yes I did think that because I know the wires are bedded in with adhesive usually ( I've never done it myself) but what is this slc? a protective layer?

Self Levelling Compound

 

[jay]

slc is screeded over ufh to protect the wires left to dry then tiled on if you do decide to have a go at it turn the power of to the ufh i would be tempted to walk personally as once you touch it your name is on it


jay

 

[nelson]

my thoughts as well - cheers jay

 

[faithhealer]

absolutely good call

 

[Davesax]

So what would be good advice in this situation if you ' had ' to take the job , or wanted to , to get the experience / skills ?

I mean if you can't get a tiler to do this job , who you gonna call?

 

[Richard Edwards]

I've done it a couple of times - Its slow and hence expensive work. In both cases the failure was due to the wally of a builder using the wrong adhesive and no SLC and leaving big voids that allowed the point loading of furniture to crack the tiles. Ie - inadequate and poor workmanship in the first place.

I took 6 tiles 600 x 600mm porcelain out for a client - They had been layed into the adhesive. The replacement took a few days and appart from the replacement tiles - it cost a lot of money - I am not allowed to talk money in this section of the forum, however believe me it was a lot for 6 tiles on an hourly rate.

I normally strike the centre of the tile with one or two really hard blows with a lump hammer and develop a crack or two. Then I have really fine stainless steel chisels which I made to do this work ( I do a lot of Victorian Floor restoration work) and work section out until I get to a wire. Then work slowly until I get the adjacent wire and develop a pattern. Then slowly with great care taking really small pieces off, one at a time, - pieces 3mm wide and after about 3 hours of back-breaking slow work, you will have the wires exposed and hopefully not damaged, clean out the area and carry on to the next one, - It will take you about 6-8 hours work on a 600 x 600 tile to remove 2 or 3 tiles !! - Always get a disclaimer signed before starting work to cover yourself, just in case you need to repair the wire or the outersheathing.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

I've done it a couple of times - Its slow and hence expensive work. In both cases the failure was due to the wally of a builder using the wrong adhesive and no SLC and leaving big voids that allowed the point loading of furniture to crack the tiles. Ie - inadequate and poor workmanship in the first place.

I took 6 tiles 600 x 600mm porcelain out for a client - They had been layed into the adhesive. The replacement took a few days and appart from the replacement tiles - it cost a lot of money - I am not allowed to talk money in this section of the forum, however believe me it was a lot for 6 tiles on an hourly rate.

I normally strike the centre of the tile with one or two really hard blows with a lump hammer and develop a crack or two. Then I have really fine stainless steel chisels which I made to do this work ( I do a lot of Victorian Floor restoration work) and work section out until I get to a wire. Then work slowly until I get the adjacent wire and develop a pattern. Then slowly with great care taking really small pieces off, one at a time, - pieces 3mm wide and after about 3 hours of back-breaking slow work, you will have the wires exposed and hopefully not damaged, clean out the area and carry on to the next one, - It will take you about 6-8 hours work on a 600 x 600 tile to remove 2 or 3 tiles !! - Always get a disclaimer signed before starting work to cover yourself, just in case you need to repair the wire or the outersheathing.

Very well put Richard, it is a very painstaking job. Not one I like doing, but have had to in the past:yikes:

 

[jay]

I've done it a couple of times - Its slow and hence expensive work. In both cases the failure was due to the wally of a builder using the wrong adhesive and no SLC and leaving big voids that allowed the point loading of furniture to crack the tiles. Ie - inadequate and poor workmanship in the first place.

I took 6 tiles 600 x 600mm porcelain out for a client - They had been layed into the adhesive. The replacement took a few days and appart from the replacement tiles - it cost a lot of money - I am not allowed to talk money in this section of the forum, however believe me it was a lot for 6 tiles on an hourly rate.

I normally strike the centre of the tile with one or two really hard blows with a lump hammer and develop a crack or two. Then I have really fine stainless steel chisels which I made to do this work ( I do a lot of Victorian Floor restoration work) and work section out until I get to a wire. Then work slowly until I get the adjacent wire and develop a pattern. Then slowly with great care taking really small pieces off, one at a time, - pieces 3mm wide and after about 3 hours of back-breaking slow work, you will have the wires exposed and hopefully not damaged, clean out the area and carry on to the next one, - It will take you about 6-8 hours work on a 600 x 600 tile to remove 2 or 3 tiles !! - Always get a disclaimer signed before starting work to cover yourself, just in case you need to repair the wire or the outersheathing.

as phil said well stated just to add hope like hell tile isnt cracked due to poor substrate prep

 

[Stewart]

I Have a rule, never to replace cracked tiles that have been fitted by another contractor, because you can't guarantee it wont happen again due to the original prep work. What was the original installers problem, just becomes yours. This is being asked for more and more with the large influx of new and cheep tilers since the start of the recession. I would recommend a total re-fit or walk away!

 

[nelson]

cheers, thats great advice richard, especially if the client really wants it done and one is prepared to do it.