Tanking-Desirable rather than essential?

[A1P]

Hi All,I am a plumber / tiler and I get mainly bathrooms to do.I am more comfortable with the plumbing than the tiling.I am trying to widen my knowledge via the forum.Many of my customers are at the 'budget' end of the market so it is mainly ceramic tiles on a wide variety of walls and floors.As with plumbing none of the tiling is ever straightforward!!I get a lot of attempts to lower my quotes and most customers are a bit cost obsessed.Tanking seems hard to sell to them.How much,do I need it etc?I know there are thousands of bathrooms pre-tanking still going strong after 10+ years.Some were even PVA'd.Dont start that again!!! I saw a post that said Aquapanel was guaranteed by manufacturer and did not need priming.Another post by Wet Decs saying that painted tanking wasnt guaranteed unless it matched exactly the depth required.Impossible for tiler to measure so possible get out.Primed plaster boards have also been passed as suitable.Many posts favour membranes.I just want to do a good job so would welcome your opinions.I gather the issue is that no grouts are waterproof as claimed-just water resistant.Rob

 

[White Room]

Thats right about most of the grouts, I too have trouble convincing people tanking is the way to go.
I like the membranes, kerdi/dura which is like wall paper but have used a few others.
I even had to make good to someones neighbours house where the shower had leaked thru the parting wall.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

iv'e got a shower in my en-suite that used to break down say every 5 years and i'd re do it ,then finaly about 2 year ago still before tanking had taken off i epoxy grouted it and so far no prob's

 

[White Room]

Same as my shower, plasterboard behind and epoxy grout used good as gold

 

[wetdec]

If you juggle the cost of the tanking membrane with the excess on a houshold insurance and the inconvenience of renewing ceilings then most householders will go for it and view it as a wise option I think.

..

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

obviosly i know both wet and membrain systems that we are all adopting now, funny enough i'v been using both systems for years in the plastering ind ( damp proofing ) so i have no probs with the systems, just the ripp off prices of the materials really that you have to justify to your customers

 

[Harry Grout]

obviosly i know both wet and membrain systems that we are all adopting now, funny enough i'v been using both systems for years in the plastering ind ( damp proofing ) so i have no probs with the systems, just the ripp off prices of the materials really that you have to justify to your customers

Gooner59 (username ) COYG's have my first wet rooms to do soon but its in a ground floor - concrete floors and solid walls,I'll be sticking mosaic tiles in the shower area - should I tank it? and what with ?

 

[wetdec]

No need, you will need a membrane on the floor if its a new screed to avoid possible tile damage.

If its a new install take a look at the Tilux board

Tilux wet room shower tray former with wetroom drain from wetdecs

..

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

ardex do a two part tanking kit that is very good

 

[White Room]

The ardex one suggests two coats though

 

[Harry Grout]

ardex do a two part tanking kit that is very good

Gooner59 - Trowel on job or brush on ?

 

[White Room]

I used a mini roller

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

sorry mate looking somewere yes i use a roller to,if you ring ardex and tell them you use a lot of there stuff they might send you a free pack there on promo at the moment, give it a go

 

[Harry Grout]

sorry mate looking somewere yes i use a roller to,if you ring ardex and tell them you use a lot of there stuff they might send you a free pack there on promo at the moment, give it a go

So its just a case of mix it up roll it on to the concrete and away you go :smilewinkgrin: - Like unibonding ?

 

[White Room]

You can fill any areas by making it thicker and use scrim tape for support and in the the corners

 

[Harry Grout]

You can fill any areas by making it thicker and use scrim tape for support and in the the corners

White beam - the old hesian scrim or the paper one ?

 

[White Room]

The self sticky nylon one, it even comes with the kit

 

[Harry Grout]

The self sticky nylon one, it even comes with the kit

White beam and thanks all - Good night and Bee's Knees for the morn :yikes:

 

[A1P]

Meanwhile back to my thread !! Is tanking a relatively new,possibly fashionable addition to a bathoom re-fit ? I know it can be justified at a relatively small cost as a 'belt and braces' process.Talking to a customer whose cash situation is tight for whatever reason about possible failure without it ,may not be the best of marketing ideas.I am not against it. I have used aquapanel which also has its costs and used the painted stuff where a customer has accepted it within the smaller cost of a shower enclosure re-fit .I suppose what I am getting at is ,Do we now say that tanking should be the industry standard?.

 

[jay]

think its going to be its in the standards over here sort of a safegaurd for customers and if you use decent products and follow directions carffuley its fool proof :8:

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

jay tas is probs like america were the building regs is backed up by the police laws and they will arrest you if you do ronge (the right way ) this country has civil law witch is rubbish and lots of cowboys get away with very poor work but we live in hope that it is adopted by all of us oh last night a guy phoned me ,he wants a wetroom he had a tiler tell him it was not the thing to have upstairs,but to have a bath??? there still out there mate

 

[jay]

yer not to the police stage here they still have trub had a call 2 months ago were tiler had w/p walk in shower area but not floor of ensuite and tiled strait on to chipboard flooring its a mess and hes still trying to weasle out of it its realy a rule to help customers and stop cowboys but at the moment not working :8:

 

[CON5933]

alot of domestic showers with no tanking system installed seem to last a number of years with no problems....thats the point..they SEEM to last, with no perceived problems.
Unless there's a glaring fault with the sealant or fittings etc, allowing water to escape where it can be seen, ie: thru the ceiling below or onto the bathroom floor...we assume everything in the garden is rosey
In truth, most domestic showers are only lightly used, the water getting thru the grout and sealant is wicked up into the substrate and has time to more or less dry out before the next use of the shower...
How many times have you taken a bath or shower out to find mould about 2 feet up the wall behind the tiles.
In my opinion, I think it should be the rule rather than the exception to fully protect any areas which are subject to use in a wet area...I expect it wont happen in this country until the insurance companies pick up on it as a way of refusing a claim for water damage (for new builds or installations)

 

[A1P]

alot of domestic showers with no tanking system installed seem to last a number of years with no problems....thats the point..they SEEM to last, with no perceived problems.
Unless there's a glaring fault with the sealant or fittings etc, allowing water to escape where it can be seen, ie: thru the ceiling below or onto the bathroom floor...we assume everything in the garden is rosey
In truth, most domestic showers are only lightly used, the water getting thru the grout and sealant is wicked up into the substrate and has time to more or less dry out before the next use of the shower...
How many times have you taken a bath or shower out to find mould about 2 feet up the wall behind the tiles.
In my opinion, I think it should be the rule rather than the exception to fully protect any areas which are subject to use in a wet area...I expect it wont happen in this country until the insurance companies pick up on it as a way of refusing a claim for water damage (for new builds or installations)

Fair comment.I get a lot of comments from customers and tilers on the lines of 'Never had any problems',What about all the tiling done before tanking?' Your comments about light use make sense,so that if the tiling has been done to the highest standards no major issues should arise before someone decides on a change.However doing it would MAKE SURE no problems occur.I shall try to get my future customers to accept it.Where there is going to e plenty of use I might push it harder for my own benefit as well as theirs.

 

[wetdec]

Do we now say that tanking should be the industry standard?

Fact is techi stuff is taking over houses are becoming more and more reliant on ventilation because of the composition of constrruction materials, kitchens more advanced, electrics and networking becoming more complex, showers more and more powerful. The risks to health and property from water increase and in the not so distant future wet areas will need to be isolated from any risk as is in some european countries now.

It's often said "we never needed it before" fact is the industry could never envisage the advances over the last and into the next 10 years.

Make what you will of it at the moment we are still free to choose.................