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DHTiling
Sound as a pound me..:hurray:
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diamondtiling
Rob, have you watched the vid in the link that Dave posted? surly its not typical of your cops? If it is its a scary thought.
:yikes:
:yikes:
R
Rob Z
Hi Dom,
Yes, I watched the first three parts (about 30 minutes' worth). I couldn't stand any more of it because it was so skewed, one-sided, lacking in substance, and thoroughly shallow in its presentation of "the facts" of whatever it was trying to show. It was intended to be sensationalistic and that is what it was.
When I first started watching the video I was thinking to myself "I wonder which gang they are going to say is the largest?" I was wondering if they would say it was MS 13 (which is in my area). Then I realized that they were trying to make out the police in general to be the largest street gang in our country, which is laughable when you consider that there are probably 10,000 separate and distinct police, sheriff and other law enforcement agencies in this country. The notion that all these agencies are acting in a concerted and similar way to deprive average citizens of their civil rights is just pure nonsense. The very fact that they are so disjointed, uncoordinated and have so many differences from agency to agency is touted as one of the reasons why the terror attacks of 9-11 occured.
The various federal, state and local laws and the police department policies that follow are different from department to department. This means that an officer in one jurisdiction is trained and ordered to do certain things that another officer in another jurisdiction is prevented from doing. For several of the supposedly heinous acts committed by police officers on the video, I can think of a multitude of questions that really should be asked, answered, and clarified before anyone should make such a presentation. This was a fluff piece and of course nothing in the way of scrutiny or thoroughness was applied during the part of the video that I saw.
The case of Abner Louima was an atrocity against his civil rights and accordingly at least one of the officers in jail for a very long time. That is an undisputable case of police brutality, but it has already gone through the courts and has been as documented and investigated as anything we could ask to see to support the claims of police brutality. I would like to see more of the other examples presented and know more of the resulting investigations, prosecutions, or whatever might be available to document that there was police brutality.
But even if that were the case, there are something like 800,000 law enforcement officers in the US at all levels. Even with the best of training, hiring processes and oversight, with that many people doing that much work in a nation of 300 million +, there are simply going to be a lot (numerically) sh itheads even though percentage wise the incidence of rogue cops is very low. It really is like the example with doctors...I think there are about 800,000 medical doctors in this country. There are high standards in medicine for selection, training and monitoring doctors, and even with all of that there are a lot of docs that do stupid, illegal, negligent and dangerous things with their patients.
So, in my experience and observation....I don't like this video and think it is about as biased and unbalanced as it can be. Yes, I think there are a lot of police officers that surly, lazy, incompetent, dishonest, brutal and so forth, but there are a hell of a lot more that are doing at the very least their jobs as they have been told to do.
Yes, I watched the first three parts (about 30 minutes' worth). I couldn't stand any more of it because it was so skewed, one-sided, lacking in substance, and thoroughly shallow in its presentation of "the facts" of whatever it was trying to show. It was intended to be sensationalistic and that is what it was.
When I first started watching the video I was thinking to myself "I wonder which gang they are going to say is the largest?" I was wondering if they would say it was MS 13 (which is in my area). Then I realized that they were trying to make out the police in general to be the largest street gang in our country, which is laughable when you consider that there are probably 10,000 separate and distinct police, sheriff and other law enforcement agencies in this country. The notion that all these agencies are acting in a concerted and similar way to deprive average citizens of their civil rights is just pure nonsense. The very fact that they are so disjointed, uncoordinated and have so many differences from agency to agency is touted as one of the reasons why the terror attacks of 9-11 occured.
The various federal, state and local laws and the police department policies that follow are different from department to department. This means that an officer in one jurisdiction is trained and ordered to do certain things that another officer in another jurisdiction is prevented from doing. For several of the supposedly heinous acts committed by police officers on the video, I can think of a multitude of questions that really should be asked, answered, and clarified before anyone should make such a presentation. This was a fluff piece and of course nothing in the way of scrutiny or thoroughness was applied during the part of the video that I saw.
The case of Abner Louima was an atrocity against his civil rights and accordingly at least one of the officers in jail for a very long time. That is an undisputable case of police brutality, but it has already gone through the courts and has been as documented and investigated as anything we could ask to see to support the claims of police brutality. I would like to see more of the other examples presented and know more of the resulting investigations, prosecutions, or whatever might be available to document that there was police brutality.
But even if that were the case, there are something like 800,000 law enforcement officers in the US at all levels. Even with the best of training, hiring processes and oversight, with that many people doing that much work in a nation of 300 million +, there are simply going to be a lot (numerically) sh itheads even though percentage wise the incidence of rogue cops is very low. It really is like the example with doctors...I think there are about 800,000 medical doctors in this country. There are high standards in medicine for selection, training and monitoring doctors, and even with all of that there are a lot of docs that do stupid, illegal, negligent and dangerous things with their patients.
So, in my experience and observation....I don't like this video and think it is about as biased and unbalanced as it can be. Yes, I think there are a lot of police officers that surly, lazy, incompetent, dishonest, brutal and so forth, but there are a hell of a lot more that are doing at the very least their jobs as they have been told to do.
C
Colour Republic
(I know you were talking to Rob Z, but..)
I wouldn't know if it was typical or not as I don't live there but there is enough footage to show that it is a real problem and in some cases innocent people have lost their lives. The sad thing is that that video does not suprise me
It happens in the UK too but not in such extremes, that's why I don't believe UK officers should be allowed to carry arms. Italian police are allowed to carry arms and they too can be barbaric. It is such a shame that police generally rule by fear rather than justice. I view the police in the UK with extreme caution. I have only ever been arrested once when I was 14 (I was in the wrong place, with the wrong people and at the wrong time) I was completely innocent and was later cleared by other witnesses but the way I got treated that day made me lose all respect for the police. They took away my laces in case I tried to hang myself (as if!) It was a Christmas Saturday night and all the male cells were full so they put me an in female section were the female warder said told me in no uncertain terms "I've had you juvenile ***** in here before, I don't want any Pi**ing or Sh**ing on the walls or I promise you you'll regret it" , it was freezing in there without any blankets and I was locked up for 8 hours as my parents were out and couldn't be got hold of. A few days latter when I was interviewed, at this point they knew I had nothing to do with it but they still employed the good cop bad cop routine on me and told me I would be watched and next time they would catch me. I hadn't done a damn thing wrong. Nice going Sussex police!
I have had many other experiences with the police...
I was interviewed as a witness to a potential crime; the police completely disregarded my statement because it cleared the suspect, and as soon as they knew I wasn't going to incriminate them they just weren't interested. I naively thought the police had a duty to investigate the truth not seek convictions.
I once walked out of a bar having had a nice drink but completely sober and in a very good mood. I went to cross the road in a notorious trouble area in Brighton, a cop car some 40 yards away accelerated, swerved round me and came to a screeching stop. He got out and started verbally abusing me saying "I'm sick of scraping ****ed ***** like you off the road" I protested that I was completely sober and crossing safely and in fact I’d like a copy of the video recording in his car that would show he's the one that needs to get himself in check. Secretly I think the copper realised that I wasn't drunk and he'd made a big mistake but he still threaten to arrest me anyway. I hate injustice so I lost it and told him to bring it on as he'd lose as I had at least 60 witnesses in the street that saw the whole thing! I would have got nicked that night for nothing had my mates not dragged me away.
I very nearly appeared in a channel 4 documentary about a very famous case of police harassment. (Double page spread in all the national papers). It was the treatment of two of my friends who had been harassed because of who one of their fathers was (a very high ranking police officer who had a campaign against him to remove him from his position). I had seen the harassment first hand and wanted to tell the story but I was advised by my boss at the time to not stick my head above the parapet as I would be targeted myself. This came from a man who requests his police file on a regular basis (because of his associates), the police have to disclose what info they hold on you, if they do not then they can't bring it up in a court of law at a later date.
Me and my girlfriend even befriended two police couples on holiday (I didn't know to begin with) I got on really well with one couple but the other one I felt really uncomfortable with as the bloke didn't say much and was constantly sizing me up. It turns out that the couple we got on with really well where ex military come coppers and the one we didn't had been in the force all his life.
So all in all I haven't had many positive experiences with police and I am very opened minded and judge people on face value but I have to say that I have met far more police officers that I dislike where they abuse the powers invested in them, than ones that I thought were level headed and actually want to serve the public and make Britain a nicer place.
The biggest con ever is the phrase 'Innocent until proven guilty' sadly nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm done, who wants my soap box?:smilewinkgrin:
C
Colour Republic
I'd have to agree with Rob Z that the way the video is present is biased (you can manipulate and edit anything to prove your point) but if you take that away you can clearly see that police brutality does go on. I also agree that statistically you are going to get some bad eggs but surely it is the polices duty to weed these out rather than protect them?
There are similar tiling threads here
