Tiles lifting

[bally1066]

Hi New to this forum, but could do with some advise if anyone can help.

I fitted a bathroom for a customer and had my tiler do all the walls and floor. Prior to the floor we screwed down 18mm wpb on top of floor boards (with plenty of screws) this then got primed before underfloor heating was installed. My tiler then laid tiles using flexible adhesive and grout. The underfloor heating was left off for a week then ramped up slowly over the next few weeks. After about 6 months the tiles started to lift. The customer put up with it for over a year while i tried to get the tiler to go back and look at it as he had moved away. Two weeks ago we went and lifted all the tiles back up and 99% of them came up leaving the adhesive stuck to the floor solid. I ended up have to buy all new tiles as we broke one getting them up and they no longer had the same batch (not good when they are £22 each) My new tiler relayed the floor over the old adhesive as this was solid and we didnt want to damage under floor heating trying to get it up. This week the customer phones me saying some are moving again!
Its been suggested to me that it could be the sub floor moving and this could possibly be the case as the customer tells me he has had to seal around shower tray twice as there has been a gap in the mastic.
If this is the case why would you not see cracking in the kitchen ceiling below?
If the joists are flexing/moving who would be responsible for that? I am not structural engineer just a bathroom fitter, am i expected to lift floorboard to check the joists when i am just removing a bathroom and fitting another.

Any help would be appreciated
Thanks

 

[White Room]

Hi and welcome...there will be alot of question from the forum members so bear with us..

The ufh should be left for at least 2 weeks before firing up...what tiles were they..

 

[suave]

welcome!

 

[Mike]

who employed the original tiler? i think he has got away lightly. and was any of the old adhesive cracked or loose when the tiles were first lifted?

 

[bally1066]

Thanks for reply,
I employed the old tiler, i had used him for years and had never had a problem with him. My new tiler i use said he could not see anything wrong with the previous job. The adhesive on the floor was stuck down solid. They are large tiles 59x59 When i bought the new tiles this time i asked the tile supplier what it could be, he said possibly a bad batch of adhesive! if thats the case the wall tiles are on the wall with the same stuff and none of them have moved.
Thanks

 

[White Room]

What where the tiles porcelain etc

 

[bally1066]

Thanks
the underfloor heating was not used for at least a week, they are large 59x59 tiles (porcelian)

 

[White Room]

What sort of build up of heat with the electric under heating was commissioned...

 

[Stewart]

Was the adhesive suitable for porcelain tiles.......?


Created on iPhone.....

 

[Gall.B]

Dont sound like they were backskimmed, or the matt was covered in SLC.

 

[jay]

Did the tiler leave a movement joint around the perimitre ,and as above was the adh suitable

 

[Muse2k8]

Is the addy cracked at all?

 

[hillhead]

Welcome, any bounce in the floor?
As mentioned, expansion around perimeter?
Also adhesive, flexible? What sort?
Only it's porcelain too you'd think the backs were dusty.
When back there you should have used an S2 grade adhesive,
Two part flex mix.

 

[nybor62]

do you no what size trowel was used ,as mentioned sounds like back of tiles not been skimmed,wonder if mix was a bit to stiff , would like to have seen pics of the addy left on the floor

 

[Mike]

your new tiler said he thinks the old adhesive was a bad batch yet he left it down so as not to disturb the ufh cable. you need to lift a loose tile to see in more detail what the problem could be. if you upload some pictures on here the tilers on here can help you more.

 

[DHTiling]

Hi and welcome.

Was the floor checked for deflection. ? It will not take much to debond tiles
as adhesive will only cope with minimal deflection.

At the boards joints , was a gap left , you could be getting timber heave due to thermal expansion.

 

[bally1066]

It was the tile supplier that said it was possibly a bad batch of adhesive not the tiler. I cant upload any pictures as we have now re-tiled the floor (at my cost) only two weeks ago. The underfloor heating has not been turned on and again my customer says he can see movement in some tiles. I cant understand how two tilers who have been tiling for years could both be wrong. The reason the old adhesive was left down was it was stuck solid to the floor. The underfloor cable was well covered. He used a different make of flexible adhesive (grey) and combed the floor and the back of the tile. I am not by any means saying its not a problem thats down to me, but if the shower tray has had to be re-sealed twice as its dropped makes me think it something else, also it has a free standing bath in there but its right up against a wall and the customer tells me that he can hear it moving when he walks in the bathroom.

 

[bally1066]

Hi Thanks what do you mean by deflection? We put three 8x4 sheets of wpb down laid in the opposite direction to the floor boards.
My problem is, if it is again a fault of mine i will have to take it all up again but i dont know what the cure is. They are not cheap tiles plus my time removing bathroom and the tiler cost. If i was to try and get old adhesive off the underfloor cable is sure to get damaged and i to get the 18mm ply up would be a nightmare as it was put down first and the wall tiles are down on top of that. Plus it has a large shower tray in there that is also laid on top of the ply and tiled in with wall tiles.

 

[Stewart]

It sounds to me like the timber floor should have been strengthened as it is moving under the weight of all the work carried out by yourself. Do you know what size of joists are under the floor boards and how far apart they are?


Created on iPhone.....

 

[nybor62]

yeah sounds like excess movement in the floor extra noggins in between joists to strengthen and stop the bounce in the floor

 

[jay]

Think the blame lies with the tiler as he has accepted the floor as fit for tiling

 

[the diving tile]

Sounds like bounce in the floor, is the house a new build if so maybe joists moved as above it only takes a tiny amount of moment to pop the tiles

 

[jay]

or it could of been caused by the leaking shower mentioned before .moisture in the sub floor .makes you wonder if the shower was tanked (also a tiler failure)