tilling over tiles why not

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

it seem to me that a lot of tilers seem to think tilling over tilling is somethink new i have done this for years mainly on hotels fastfood out lets but also showrooms and domestic never had any problems what are your experiences

 

[DHTiling]

What about weight limits..?..

you ever heard of BS5385.?

Just to say you have done it for years does not make it correct IMO..

You do not know how well the previous installation was done and to give a guarantee for your tiling over someones else's is madness .

 

[Stewart]

No it's not new, it's just continued bad practice from days gone by. Lots of contractors still do it and it's still spec'd by architects and surveyors and still doesn't follow the regs.

It may be easy to do when working for a contractor, who will ultimately shoulder the blame, but as someone with my own business, it's just not on and I would walk every time, as I wouldn't want to take the chance of tarnishing my reputation.

I know we all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, which is used as an excuse for many different types of bad practices, but does go to show we need to get our trade registered and regulated ASAP!


Created on iPhone.....

 

[nybor62]

as all above for me, we no it goes on , on a regular basis, but that does,nt make it right

 

[merit]

ive been asked to tile on tile and refused evry time,some times the existing tiles are only held on by the grout between them, take one off and the rest follow,i wouldnt fix to tile

 

[Perry]

I Have on some floors it depends on a lot of factors but it is not recommend for most situations and wouldn't advise it but after 30 years or so if you are good you should know

 

[deankyall]

never had any problems either,i always try and knock the old tiles off if they wont shift then ill do it,for example ive a job end next week old lady in flat,fully tiled ,tiles are solid,if i say take all off then also walls would have to put right ,there is no way she could afford it,just ceramics going on ceramics nothing really large,years ago used to work on boats(crap work) ie cruise ships,mate of mine still does them,i gave the company a couple of days about a year ago in southampton,and i think it was the 3rd layer of tiles,used fastflex on floors and tiled over all floors and some walls were tiled over too,this all has to be done in the time the boats docked,and then off they sail again,he hasnt told me they have problems,now i know its not bs standards but this is what they do, and have done and will continue to do i suppose until the major refit when all layers would be taken off and back to the deck.I think it depends how well the tiles are on.if tiles need to come off then i always get customer to do it,as when i say how much it costs for my day rate they baulk at what it adds to price,also as i say you cant tell what state the wall are going to be left in and repairs needed,ie replastering etc

it seem to me that a lot of tilers seem to think tilling over tilling is somethink new i have done this for years mainly on hotels fastfood out lets but also showrooms and domestic never had any problems what are your experiences

 

[dave l and l]

regulations and corners are cut in every trade . i am not a fan of tiling over tiles and i will always try to get back to the bare wall so i can re sheet, i personally think you get a better finish when you start from scratch.,, i have ripped out alot of jobs and there has been two layers of tiles on without a problem, i have never tiled over floor tiles either , i didnt think you could get a strong enough bond to them.

ripped up a floor last week where it was tiled on tiles but there was no adhesive under tiles at all, grout and skirting boards were holding it in place. guy told me it had been down for years without a problem.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

on one hotel i was working on this had three layers first layer was on sand and cemment second layer on tiles third layer on tiles this could not be tilled over again could not turn taps on baths builder chopped off all the old tiles off this was not an easy job all layers well and truly stuck this is when i accepted you could tile on tile .seen it with my own eyes. will always check bonding of old tiles not hard to do .always check weights . use correct adhesive and primers.never had a failure .always take pride in all my work .

 

[kendo1]

Standards are dropping, written English is not what it used to be.

 

[kendo1]

Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villian by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengence; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.

 

[user123]

Vicarious verbose virility at its very vehement best :lol:

 

[doug boardley]

tiling on tiles,,,akin to drink driving imo,, you won't get caught every time, but it only takes one time...

 

[jay]

Think its time to paint a picture here as some are not getting it,

one layer of tiles over 1 square meter = about 25 -27 kg with adh and grout (talking 300x300 tiles roughly)

two layers of the same tile on a 1 square meter section of wall = 50-54kg

a third layer of tiles on the same area = 75-81kg

now that's the weight side of it whats holding it to the wall,the first layer of adh ,and whats the wall make up plasterboard render whatever i think you will find not many substrates will carry that ,So ten meters on the wall of three layers = 750kg , now i know some walls are good but really

can you see the picture now

and that's with a small tile

pretty sure the adh manufacture wouldn't want to know anything about it if it fails

 

[Perry]

Jay see one a little while ago office toilets 6"x 6" then 6"x 8" then 8"x10" and wanted me to tile on top with porcelain all on plaster and thought i was try to con them asking them to take them off as the tile suppler said it fine :mad2:

 

[jay]

That is one of the main reasons there are so many problems in the industry the suppliers are mis informed and are only there to sell

 

[Perry]

That is one of the main reasons there are so many problems in the industry the suppliers are mis informed and are only there to sell

these were the importers selling them direct they should know better

 

[scott mccoll]

would be lying if a said a have never done it before but just repeating what stewart said on previous page,only did it for the contractors i was working for at the time(their instructions) to be honest dont think most contactors give a hoot! any comebacks would be theirs to shoulder the blame.Any other time i have always advised cutomers to remove existing tiles , at the end of the day its YOUR reputation thats on the line.

 

[Spud]

Tile on tile was recommended until very recently by the tile association , if the first layer was well fixed on a rendered sand and cement substrate or cement backer board substrate I would have no problem fixing new tiles on to it and I have tried to remove tiles off of render before and you would absolutely potty to even try it, not all tile installations are even fixed with tile adhesive some were fixed with sand and cement try removing a ceramic tile fitted this way and you will be in for a surprise
Its not best practice to tile over tile and in most circumstances I would recommended removing the old ones first but in certain circumstances it is fine to do so

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

thanks for all your replies enjoyed reading them a few more questions why do all adhesive manufactures ardex bal mapie and so on happly recommend adhesive for tiling on tile wall and floor . why are there no british standards on this .if adhesive is sold for this use . when tiling on to tile does this become stronger like laminating ply .when tiling walls after grouting how much weight then becomes floor loading .its good to think.once we believed the world was flat:yikes:

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Ray I think you are missing the point mate, no disrespect to you, or any other poster on this thread. Gary and others summed it for me. The question was never will tile bond to tile, as you say many well known adhesive manufacturers have products that will adhere to a tiled surface.

The question is, how well are the tiles bonded that you are tiling to? also who fixed them? what adhesive did they use? what was the original substrate? the questions never end.

Why not strip the old tiles, see what the substrate is, and does it require any prep work? we are no longer fixing 150mmx150mm tiles, more likely 600mm x 300mm or larger. I have been a professional wall and floor tiler man and boy (44yrs) and have seen and heard it all.

Lets try and give good advice on this fine forum, or just not bother posting.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Gazzer]

The adhesive manufacturers will only guarantee that the adhesive will stick the new tile to the old....They will not and they can not state that the original tiles are sound enough to take the weight of the new tile.
A recent conversation with a well known tile company stated to be that a plaster skimmed wall was fine to be tiled with tiles weighing 70kgs per m2.....what they really were saying was that the adhesive they would supply would stick the tile to the plaster........whether the plaster de bonded due to the weight was of no concern to them and nothing to do with them. That was a matter to take up with the plaster company.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

for good advice to be heard bad advice has to be talked about:yikes:

 

[Muse2k8]

Even Bal technical services have recommended not to tile onto tile. As above you have no idea how well the tiles are bonded and even if you test a few how are you sure you havnt just tested the only good tiles? You would need to test all of them to be sure.


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