Travertine shower done wrong - Next steps?

[Entropy]

Apologies for the length of first post, but I'll try and pre-empt some of the common questions I have seen asked of people with similar problems.

I have recently had a bathroom/shower tiled in honed and filled travertine and now reading more extensively here realise the job is probably not up to scratch. It is my intention to go back to the builder who did the job and possibly direct to the tiler he subcontracted some of the work to, but I need to know what are sensible solutions to know that I am not being fobbed off and that they might know how to fix the problem properly. It is my fear he won't return, as the work was complete several weeks ago and paid up in full, it's just taken a while to notice and become a little better educated thanks to this forum. All the agreement was verbal, but that's all part of the learning experience I guess.

First up how seriously should I take the weight limits for tiling on plaster? I have two whole bathrooms worth of travertine tiles hanging off newly plastered walls (some plasterboard, some on blockwork, and even some plastered aqua-panel (I don't know why)) and by my guestimate its too heavy. Nothing has moved or fallen off, but obviously I want it to stay that way. It's obviously a huge and expensive task to pull it all down, replace the substrate and re-tile - especially as the travertine looks unlikely to survive removal and so this too would have to be replaced.

One bathroom is bath only and aside from a bit of grout haze which I am still hopeful I will be able to clean up looks good and causes no problems.
The other bathroom however contains a shower, which is leaking slightly. The shower is constructed incorrectly, but am I unsure as to what steps to take to fix things. Construction was as follows:
1) Aqua-panel onto studs on partition wall
2) Aqua-panel was skimmed in plaster along with the rest of the bathroom, which although tiled in the same way I was advised didn't need aqua panel as it wouldn't be getting wet.
3) Watered down coat of waterproof PVA
4) Shower tray siliconed to the wall (aqua-panel).
5) Travertine tiles stuck on with "Bostik showerproof" the adhesive is quite thick and the backs of the tiles are well covered. It seems to have now set good and hard.
6) Whole thing sealed with HG impregtator
7) Grouted with "Granfix Maxigrout"
8) Impregnated again
9) Shower screen and tray siliconed to the tiles

Now I should say that the tiles look acceptable. There is a couple of mm lipping in one or two places, but generally they are pretty good. So how serious is the poor treatment of the substrate (plastering the aquapanel), lack of tanking and perhaps sub optimal choice of adhesive, grout and sealer (I only say that as they never seem recommended here)?
However the shower leaks slightly. The leak is at floor level at the outside corners of the shower tray, so it looks like water is getting between the tile and the wall, running down to the shower tray and then along the tray to the edge, before dropping off on to the floor. Leaking takes perhaps 10 minutes to start, but then up to 10 hours to stop completely. A typical shower leaks maybe quarter of a cup total over that time - nothing drastic, but enough to cause rot or mould if left untreated.

I think I have ruled out plumbing, first by the location of the leak, but also by running the shower into a bucket and allowing that to overflow into the tray and subsequently drain. However even running the shower into the tray without the bucket, which causes a bit more splashing and a bit more steam results in a slight leak.

What is the most likely culprit and is anything other than starting again likely to help?

The tiles do not seem overly porous, but I have only tested with water, not steam. Water on the surface takes over an hour to damp the back of the tile when I tested a spare tile.

Would poor grout account for this much water? If so is pulling it all out and re grouting an option, and if so what grout should I use?

Most tiles cause water beading on the surface, but the grout lines still 'wet out', so I wonder if more impregnator might help? If so am I best sticking with HG, continuing with something like Aqua mix, or trying to remove the HG and then continuing with a more premium sealer/impregnator (if so recommendations please?)

Many thanks for any advise.

 

[charlie1]

1) Aqua-panel onto studs on partition wall
2) Aqua-panel was skimmed in plaster along with the rest of the bathroom, which although tiled in the same way I was advised didn't need aqua panel as it wouldn't be getting wet.
Plastering the aquapannel is unnesisary and would take you very close to the limitations of wieghts of the plaster (22kg pm2(I think)) How long did they leave the plaster to dry before tiling??
3) Watered down coat of waterproof PVA
Unacceptabile, should never use PVA, allways use correct primer advised by adhesive manufacturer(acrylic)
4) Shower tray siliconed to the wall (aqua-panel).
5) Travertine tiles stuck on with "Bostik showerproof" the adhesive is quite thick and the backs of the tiles are well covered. It seems to have now set good and hard.
Seems ok, was it white or gray?
6) Whole thing sealed with HG impregtator
2 coats required IMO, once before grout and either 1 or 2 after, however must work clean or a coat before setting is advised
7) Grouted with "Granfix Maxigrout"
8) Impregnated again
9) Shower screen and tray siliconed to the tiles


hope this helps, some other guys wil be on soon with more advice good luck!!

 

[Gazzer]

1)
3) Watered down coat of waterproof PVA
Unacceptabile, should never use PVA, allways use correct primer advised by adhesive manufacturer(acrylic)

But some adhesive manufacturers still advise PVA !

 

[Entropy]

2) Aqua-panel was skimmed in plaster along with the rest of the bathroom, which although tiled in the same way I was advised didn't need aqua panel as it wouldn't be getting wet.
Plastering the aquapannel is unnesisary and would take you very close to the limitations of wieghts of the plaster (22kg pm2(I think)) How long did they leave the plaster to dry before tiling??

Perhaps 3 days drying on the plaster. It did look even and dry before tiling.

3) Watered down coat of waterproof PVA
Unacceptabile, should never use PVA, allways use correct primer advised by adhesive manufacturer(acrylic)

The adhesive manufacturer recommends FLEXIBOND. I'm guessing the problem with PVA is it breaks down if it gets damp. Does waterproof PVA improve this? Is this error sufficient cause to start again?

5) Travertine tiles stuck on with "Bostik showerproof" the adhesive is quite thick and the backs of the tiles are well covered. It seems to have now set good and hard.
Seems ok, was it white or gray?

Light grey. Doesn't seem to be staining or affecting the travertine in any way so far. The grout is white.

6) Whole thing sealed with HG impregtator
2 coats required IMO, once before grout and either 1 or 2 after, however must work clean or a coat before setting is advised

Yes, there are two coats total, one before and one after grout. Would more impregnator help? If so am I best sticking with the same brand or in some fashion switching to something 'premium'. The impregnator used is just normal HG impregnator, not even the stuff HG produce specifically for marble and travertine.
Does it make sense for me to try and tackle my leak, or is it a loosing battle that will ultimately require me pulling tiles off the wall?
-Michael

 

[jay]

hi i think your problem will be hard to fix the way it was installed quite a few probs (waterproofing would of been better) about the only advice i can offer is to remove all and start again as like in most cases you try to fix but it ends up costing more in the long run would advice getting the tiler back to fix it as its his work good luck

 

[charlie1]

Perhaps 3 days drying on the plaster. It did look even and dry before tiling.
Thats not enough time to allow plaster to dry prior to tiling imo! I give at least 3 weeks!! Was it a skim or full plaster?

The adhesive manufacturer recommends FLEXIBOND. I'm guessing the problem with PVA is it breaks down if it gets damp. Does waterproof PVA improve this? Is this error sufficient cause to start again?
Yep, PVA gows back to its origonal state once water is added, not sure about water proof PVA.

Light grey. Doesn't seem to be staining or affecting the travertine in any way so far. The grout is white.
Should have used white adhesive, any bleeding will take time to show through, Lets hope the tiles have been skimmed on the backs!! Look out for faint comb lines showing through!

Yes, there are two coats total, one before and one after grout. Would more impregnator help? If so am I best sticking with the same brand or in some fashion switching to something 'premium'. The impregnator used is just normal HG impregnator, not even the stuff HG produce specifically for marble and travertine.
Personally , I use the stuff for marbe/trav, not really sure if there would be any issue with using normal sealer other than a different finish/look!
Does it make sense for me to try and tackle my leak, or is it a loosing battle that will ultimately require me pulling tiles off the wall?
Gut instinct tels me that ur leak is probably coming from poor silicone joint around your tray, most likley right in the corner, Direct you water spray to spcific area to find out!
-Michael

Hope this helps!

 

[Dan]

Another bathroom where somebody has skimmed an aquaboard?!?!?! What's with these people?!