Ribbon Underfloor Heating by AHT - Heating

[Dan]

Anybody used Ribbon Underfloor Heating, by AHT Heating?

 

[grumpygrouter]

No mate.

 

[david campbell]

never heard of it mate whats there prices like!

don't think aaron is going to be happy about this post

 

[brian c]

Thats what i thought..but all is fair in love and war m8.

 

[grumpygrouter]

As it is the forum owner that made the post, I would imagine there is a valid reason for doing so. I am sure Aaron will realise that.

 

[Gazzer]

No i havent used this system before. So many coming on the market at the moment.

 

[Olz]

Nope, not used it either.

 

[Dan]

I used the stuff; hated it. International Decorative Surfaces, a large laminate importer and distributor has it in for a few months and got rif of it "due to complications". And I had a lady call once who had not installed the DPM-like thing in her bathrrom and was feeling "shocks" when she walked on it with it on, and the floor was wet. Never heard from her after passing her onto AHT.

I think it was designed for under-carpet. But AHT pushed it into tile and laminate. Though really, cable or cable mat is for tile, carbon is for laminate and carpets.

Really though, who'd want to heat carpets?!?! All those bugs you're promoting the growth of with the extra warmth and all that. I have mild asthma and I couldn't cope with thinking I'm habouring MORE dust-mites.

Perhaps that's just my opinion though, I just wondered if you guys had experienced the stuff at all?

 

[HowardM]

Dan,, you make this sound like it is the fault of the product and not the installation. was it damaged during installation? was the earth connected? was there an RCD in place? was it commisioned by a qualified electrician?

People can get electric shocks from all types of electric underfloor heating be it AHT, Devi, Electra if it was not installed incorrectly.

A bit confrontational for a first post but BS7671:2008 and previous would not allow any form of underfloor heating be activated by an electrician if it failed a basic insulation test.

 

[ssheen]

I've used them and I can't say that the feedback I received was positive overall. It's a neat idea, ribbons, but there are systems that are easier to work with and 17th Ed compliant out of the box. I don't think AHT are unless they have introduced an earthed version.

 

[HowardM]

Their products are 17th edition compliant as confirmed By The IET and JPEL/64.

A letter was distributed on 8th September 2008 to clarify that class II products do not require an earth in 753.415.1

The condition under 701.753 bathroom, wetrooms, swimming pools etc still applies as indeed it did under the 16th.

for confirmation may be worth while asking you NICEIC rep or contact the IET technical support helpline.

THE IET 01438 313311

 

[ssheen]

AHT products are 17th edition compliant as confirmed By The IET and JPEL/64.

A letter was distributed on 8th September 2008 to clarify that class II products do not require an earth in 753.415.1

The condition under 701.753 bathroom, wetrooms, swimming pools etc still applies as indeed it did under the 16th.

for confirmation may be worth while asking you NICEIC rep or contact the IET technical support helpline.

THE IET 01438 313311

HowardM is correct; Class II products, or products that are "double-insulated", do not require a built-in earth. However, they do require a 30mA RCD (753.415.1), which if wired properly requires an earth. The result is pretty-much the same.

You could wire an RCD without an earth, but most will not work in the manner designed by the manufacturer. That is, they do not plan on you being the earth. (I contacted PowerBreaker to make sure this was the case)

Sure, you can get around this by using an earth grid over the system, but my comment was about being "17th Ed compliant out of the box".

Keep in mind that no matter how a system is designed, without proper installation, it can still fail the regs.

 

[pjrich]

AHT products are 17th edition compliant as confirmed By The IET and JPEL/64.

A letter was distributed on 8th September 2008 to clarify that class II products do not require an earth in 753.415.1

The condition under 701.753 bathroom, wetrooms, swimming pools etc still applies as indeed it did under the 16th.

for confirmation may be worth while asking you NICEIC rep or contact the IET technical support helpline.

THE IET 01438 313311

Can you post a copy of this letter, because when I spoke to the NICEIC tech people last year (I am also the owner of an NICEIC contracting company) they advised me that electric ufh systems without an intergral earth had to have an earth grid installed over the top.

I am also a member of the IET and so far I have not seen an release from them that updates the requirements of the 17th edition wiring regulations.

I also spoke to a major manufacturer of carbon film heating and unofficially they said that the new regs were bad news for them because of the new earthing requirements for electric ufh systems in the 17th edition.

I would very much like to see this letter (who's it from?) that permits the use of unearthed electric ufh systems, because this is an important safety issue that needs evidence to backup this statement.

At present Uheat will only supply electric underfloor heating systems that we are 100% confident comply with all current regulations.

 

[HowardM]

I agree that the carbon film cannot be deemed as class II and does require a mesh however no definitive has been reached.

The product is double insulated and is signified on the product with the symbol of a box within a box. even if carbon film was double insulated it gets cut to size so is far from double insulated and if not sealed correctly after cutting then a potential problem.

 

[pjrich]

Thanks for posting the letter from IET.

So, this letter confrims that if the electric ufh is class II then an earth grid is not required unless unless its in a room containing a bath or shower. - Everyone agree?

Now, the next issue that ssheen raised was that an RCD needs an earth to operate. If this is the case, then class II without an earth will not comply with 17th edition because the RCD won't work.

When I went to college many years ago and we studied the workings of an RCD, an earth was not required because it operated on the imbalance of currents running through the live and neutral conductors. If this is not the case anymore then I think we need to see some documentation that proves that an RCD needs the circuits it supplies to have a cpc (earth). Perhaps it is just some RCD's that need an earth, like RCD spurs?

Tilers, if you buy from Underfloor Heating | Electric | Floor Insulation | Uheat you will not have to worry about all the tech talk above because we only supply electric ufh systems that comply with regs, are fully earthed and will work with RCD's.:hurray: