British Standards In Wall And Floor Tiling Bs 5385 For Free

[Dan]

British Standards in Wall and Floor Tiling BS 5385 for Free​

Okay, so if you've been following the forum over the last few days you'll see we've firstly moaned about the price of British Standards in Wall and Floor Tiling, then figured out by a poll that nearly nobody has a copy of the British Standards BS5385 and a shocking amount of tilers haven't even read the UK standards for wall and floor tiling (not their fault mind!).

So I managed to first get a list of Libraries that can give you access to the full range of british standards in wall and floor tiling, bs 5385 is the British Standards code, not just tiling, but all standards for other things such as plastering, rendering, decorating, plumbing etc.

Then I found and contacted a library that you can register to and access the full range of british standards for tiling (bs 5385) no matter where you live in the country.

Register here: Join the library or renew your card online | Newcastle City Council

New way to do it, see here: Where is the thread to access British Standards for free these days? | Tilers Forums - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/where-is-the-thread-to-access-british-standards-for-free-these-days.89724/

Then use your PIN that I think comes through the post to access the BSOL (British Standards Online). You can't print them (that would be in breach of copyright rules etc). But you can read them and take some notes and whatnot. You can summarise the text and put it in your own words etc.

HOW TO ACCESS BRITISH STANDARDS IN TILING - TILING STANDARDS FOR THE UK

Ok so, for anyone looking for it, once logged in to the library account, follow this link:
Information - Newcastle Libraries, which should take you-
https://bsol.bsigroup.com here, after you click Access BSI British Standards.
Hope this helps 😀

New way to do it, see here: Where is the thread to access British Standards for free these days? | Tilers Forums - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/where-is-the-thread-to-access-british-standards-for-free-these-days.89724/

Most local libraries have the full British Standards for free. You will just need to register (and pay) to subscribe to the library which isn't usually much.

Alternatively join The Tile Association and you can get discounts on buying them or something like that.

THANKS PEOPLE 😀​

 

[My dog's called Trevor]

No, but I will do soon

I'm not a tiler but I think this is really important. It's ridiculous that professionals and the public don't have easy access to these standards. The main thing holding anyone back is cost.
In a recent thread elsewhere I got a lot of advice from this site about some poor quality tiling. The key was what I could and should have expected from the guy that did the work. The advice from this site was really helpful.
The legal position on what anyone can expect is basically workmanship to an acceptable standard. But what is that standard? When a standard does exist it seems crazy that the cost to access it is practically prohibitive. Before and during the advice I received from this site, I tried to access the standards and for the whole lot you'd be just short of a grand (might be cheaper elsewhere, I didn't shop around).
In the days of freedom of information, and everything accessible electronically it seems crazy that we can't all access this stuff whenever we want. Most people would have no objection (many would be reassured) if their tiler, electrician, etc. checked something on their phone. We probably wouldn't even know. We're used to a tradesman going off to get supplies but we'd think it pretty odd if he or she said they were off down the library before it shut.
I'm sure these standards cost a bit to prepare and update but it's not as if the treasury is going to take a big hit by giving us all free access to them. At the current price nobody's buying them anyway, as evidenced by Dan's poll - and that's within the trade itself. If the British public were avidly accessing tiling standards on a daily basis (as if?) I could see how introducing a small fee would swell the national coffers a bit, but we are not and removing a fee would have no impact on No 11 or the Bank of England.
In the medical field all this is freely available to anyone. You can Google any reports and guidelines from NICE, any of the national and many international specialist organisations, and any of the Royal Colleges. No registering, membership, or trips to the library. And of course you can print it off to read on the bus. Why not in the building trade? Nobody should expect the reports to be in lay speech or have free access to published journals but I can't see the point of having standards and guidelines with barriers to access.
So tradesmen and their customers are left collecting scraps second hand from manufacturers' websites (I think someone else mentioned this also) and hoping that the interpretation applies to their circumstances, and relying on what someone says is in the standard when that person probably doesn't own a copy either - I've done this just this weekend in discussions with the guy who messed up my floor. I could have made anything up, safe in the knowledge that there is realistically no way that he could, let alone would, have checked.
The more accessible these publications are, the more they will be followed - it can't make it less likely - and the more customers will know what to expect. I'm not suggesting years of experience is not to be trusted or acknowledged, I just don't see the point of restricting access to a document that is intended to be consulted and followed.
Do the various trade associations have a view on this to lobby for free access?
Sorry to interrupt what was very much a professional discussion but there is a point of principle here that affects customers as well as the trade.
Finally, I think 5389 might be fire alarms (typo, I guess) - sorry if that's wrong but I didn't want a whole load of tilers registering with Newcastle library for the wrong thing.
Matt

 

[Ajax123]

Okay, so if you've been following the forum over the last few days you'll see we've firstly moaned about the price of them, then figured out by a poll that nearly nobody has them and a shocking amount of tilers haven't even read them (not their fault mind!).

So I managed to first get a list of Libraries that can give you access to the full range, not just tiling.

Then I contacted one, and I've found a library, that you can register to and access the full range of british standards for tiling (bs 5389) no matter where you live in the country.

Register here: Join the library or renew your card online | Newcastle City Council

Then use your PIN to access the BSOL. You can't print them. But you can read them and take some notes and whatnot.

Could you print them by taking a screen shot and saving it to a word or pdf doc???

 

[Dan]

Could you print them by taking a screen shot and saving it to a word or pdf doc???

Not legally but I guess it's possible. It's part of note taking I guess.

 

[Dan]

I'm not a tiler but I think this is really important. It's ridiculous that professionals and the public don't have easy access to these standards. The main thing holding anyone back is cost.
In a recent thread elsewhere I got a lot of advice from this site about some poor quality tiling. The key was what I could and should have expected from the guy that did the work. The advice from this site was really helpful.
The legal position on what anyone can expect is basically workmanship to an acceptable standard. But what is that standard? When a standard does exist it seems crazy that the cost to access it is practically prohibitive. Before and during the advice I received from this site, I tried to access the standards and for the whole lot you'd be just short of a grand (might be cheaper elsewhere, I didn't shop around).
In the days of freedom of information, and everything accessible electronically it seems crazy that we can't all access this stuff whenever we want. Most people would have no objection (many would be reassured) if their tiler, electrician, etc. checked something on their phone. We probably wouldn't even know. We're used to a tradesman going off to get supplies but we'd think it pretty odd if he or she said they were off down the library before it shut.
I'm sure these standards cost a bit to prepare and update but it's not as if the treasury is going to take a big hit by giving us all free access to them. At the current price nobody's buying them anyway, as evidenced by Dan's poll - and that's within the trade itself. If the British public were avidly accessing tiling standards on a daily basis (as if?) I could see how introducing a small fee would swell the national coffers a bit, but we are not and removing a fee would have no impact on No 11 or the Bank of England.
In the medical field all this is freely available to anyone. You can Google any reports and guidelines from NICE, any of the national and many international specialist organisations, and any of the Royal Colleges. No registering, membership, or trips to the library. And of course you can print it off to read on the bus. Why not in the building trade? Nobody should expect the reports to be in lay speech or have free access to published journals but I can't see the point of having standards and guidelines with barriers to access.
So tradesmen and their customers are left collecting scraps second hand from manufacturers' websites (I think someone else mentioned this also) and hoping that the interpretation applies to their circumstances, and relying on what someone says is in the standard when that person probably doesn't own a copy either - I've done this just this weekend in discussions with the guy who messed up my floor. I could have made anything up, safe in the knowledge that there is realistically no way that he could, let alone would, have checked.
The more accessible these publications are, the more they will be followed - it can't make it less likely - and the more customers will know what to expect. I'm not suggesting years of experience is not to be trusted or acknowledged, I just don't see the point of restricting access to a document that is intended to be consulted and followed.
Do the various trade associations have a view on this to lobby for free access?
Sorry to interrupt what was very much a professional discussion but there is a point of principle here that affects customers as well as the trade.
Finally, I think 5389 might be fire alarms (typo, I guess) - sorry if that's wrong but I didn't want a whole load of tilers registering with Newcastle library for the wrong thing.
Matt

You're bang on!

And yeah you're right. I have typed 5389 once and now my phone changes anything similar to it with its not so awesome autocorrect when I click submit.

 

[Dan Fletcher]

I've registered today. The pin number is e-mail back almost straight away, just got to wait for the card to arrive in the post to enable loggin. Let you know how I get on.

 

[Dan]

Gowan Dan.

Is it free or what? I mean to register etc.

 

[Old Mod]

Gowan Dan.

Is it free or what? I mean to register etc.

I registered today also after reading his post, cost nothing and got pin within 10 mins. Not read email properly yet so not sure if I have to wait for my card or can get straight in. Check in a bit.

 

[punkc]

i have registered and revived my pin but cant find where to enter it to get the standers.

 

[Old Mod]

i have registered and revived my pin but cant find where to enter it to get the standers.

Hi, welcome to the forum.
U will receive ur card in the post. Only then can u log in.

 

[punkc]

Hi, welcome to the forum.
U will receive ur card in the post. Only then can u log in.

perfect thank you.

Hi, welcome to the forum.
U will receive ur card in the post. Only then can u log in.

ok so i got yo card in the post today so what the next step?

 

[Old Mod]

Go to the library website and login using ur username on card and ur pin.
Access 24 hour library and scroll down to where it says references or something like that.
When it reloads sure it has a link to British Standards.
Found it easily enough the first time but then struggled but I updated my account (there's a link that asks u)
Signed in again on the right hand side bar then had no problem finding links to British standards, then just search 5385
Easy!!!! Haha

 

[SJPurdy]

Just a little thought!
With many new tilers having been on tiler training courses and many of them are hopefully members here. Wasn't reading through the BS and being instructed on its meaning and application in practice part of the course?

 

[Dan]

Just a little thought!
With many new tilers having been on tiler training courses and many of them are hopefully members here. Wasn't reading through the BS and being instructed on its meaning and application in practice part of the course?

No.
It's not even a must as part of the NVQ.

 

[DemoXpert]

Has anyone managed to get to the actual documents?
i' ve registered and got the card, logged in, but can't find the documents, although i've tried to follow the instructions above...

 

[Dan]

You just login to British Standards Online (BSOL) and use the Library login details I think? Just run a search then for "Wall and Floor Tiling" or "BS5385"

 

[Old Mod]

Has anyone managed to get to the actual documents?
i' ve registered and got the card, logged in, but can't find the documents, although i've tried to follow the instructions above...

I had to do full registration once in, then go to 24hr library and access BS there, might be under references or something.
If u struggle I'll look tonight.

 

[Dan]

I'd have to have a look for you when I get more time matey. I'm a bit busy today.

The Newcastle Library girl I was emailing was really helpful. Use their contact form on their library website and ask how to access them. Then copy and paste her reply here! lol

 

[DemoXpert]

ok,i got it after 3 hrs of trying😱:
Home - Newcastle Libraries

 

[Dan]

ok,i got it after 3 hrs of trying😱:
Home - Newcastle Libraries

Are you just having a nosey or do you need the BS for something?

 

[DemoXpert]

Are you just having a nosey or do you need the BS for something?

Just want it for future reference really... but i think i will have to buy it, as the navigation on the free version (through the library) its awful!...

 

[Dan]

Just want it for future reference really... but i think i will have to buy it, as the navigation on the free version (through the library) its awful!...

I think (might be wrong @Dave might be able to confirm) that if you are a member of Tiles, tiling and tilers: The Tile Association you get them discounted or something? And you get informed of important updates to them. I might be wrong though that might be something else.

 

[DemoXpert]

ok so, for anyone looking for it, once logged in to the library account, follow this link:
Information - Newcastle Libraries, which should take you-
https://bsol.bsigroup.com here, after you click Access BSI British Standards.
Hope this helps 😀

 

[DemoXpert]

I think (might be wrong @Dave might be able to confirm) that if you are a member of Tiles, tiling and tilers: The Tile Association you get them discounted or something? And you get informed of important updates to them. I might be wrong though that might be something else.

if you become a member of BSI, you get 50% discount as well!... i wonder what the cost of membership is!...

 

[Dan]

ok so, for anyone looking for it, once logged in to the library account, follow this link:
Information - Newcastle Libraries, which should take you-
https://bsol.bsigroup.com here, after you click Access BSI British Standards.
Hope this helps 😀

I've added that to the first post.
British Standards in Wall And Floor Tiling BS 5385 For Free

 

[DemoXpert]

I've added that to the first post.
British Standards in Wall And Floor Tiling BS 5385 For Free

Gr8 job Dan!

 

[Dan]

if you become a member of BSI, you get 50% discount as well!... i wonder what the cost of membership is!...

Not cheap I enquired. lol

 

[DemoXpert]

I'd have thought so!... The overall cost is simply unreasonable!!! No wonder so few ppl have it.

 

[Dan]

Yeah.

Which is why I spent a bit of time on it to get what I can FOC.

I know it's a pain in the bum logging in and searching etc, but we can physically access them for free now at least. And that's a massive step for the tile industry. Because nobody else bothered beforehand. And if they did, they kept it a secret quite well!

 

[Wishiwasatoptiler]

Just a little thought!
With many new tilers having been on tiler training courses and many of them are hopefully members here. Wasn't reading through the BS and being instructed on its meaning and application in practice part of the course?

I can't say it was or wasn't, but it an amount of it may have been discussed during the practical's, remember people are coming from all walks of life and will be more focused on sticking the tiles to walls and all the rest that go's into it than reading about BS.

I'd have to have a look for you when I get more time matey. I'm a bit busy today.

The Newcastle Library girl I was emailing was really helpful. Use their contact form on their library website and ask how to access them. Then copy and paste her reply here! lol

Salt of the earth, girls from Newcastle.... that's a lot said from someone from SUNDERLAND.....

 

[Dan]

Is this still working? Anybody else got their free copy?