Advice on porcelain tile movement. Grout coming out of tiles.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 2, 2018

UPDATE
I have just phoned tiler for an update on this situation and asked why we’re not back to a bare floor. He advised me that the joiner is saying it would take days to remove all existing slc etc. So when that option was removed the next best solution was to use a concrete based board screwed in with 40 something screws to lift the floor. He has advised joiner that he will have to review floor once boards are down for stability and that we will hear cracks just now because of the existing adhesive underneath. Told him I understood why I could hear cracking as all of that was still underneath that but I could actually feel movement in a specific board and he’s coming out tomorrow as planned to review. He said if the floor isn’t stable then it has to go back to the joiner and decide wether that means lifting it all or using a suitable compound which will secure it. He said he will not waste his or our time laying the tiles if it isn’t going to work so not to worry. I also asked about his method for adhesive which he told me he definitely doesn’t do dot and dab method, he trowels it on the floor and then backskims the tile and also all materials getting used will be flexible.

Time's Ran Out · Dec 2, 2018

It would have been just as easy to have lifted all the old adhesive on the 6mm plywood. Even to have levelled all the floor prior to fitting the No more ply. But unless you use the expensive tubes of adhesive with NMP, tape and mechanical fixings I don’t see a satisfactory outcome!

Wonkyfloor · Dec 2, 2018

timeless john said:
It would have been just as easy to have lifted all the old adhesive on the 6mm plywood. Even to have levelled all the floor prior to fitting the No more ply. But unless you use the expensive tubes of adhesive with NMP, tape and mechanical fixings I don’t see a satisfactory outcome!

He’s told me they boards don’t need taped or joined with adhesive and that no more ply and hardiebacker are the same thing both concrete based boards. Sorry again for bombarding you but I’m just wanting to be fully armed and ready for them all arriving tomorrow. Another concern I have is how high my floor will be sitting at the end of this if they continued with this job and put the underfloor heating on top then a compound on top of that.

Time's Ran Out · Dec 2, 2018

It’ll be about 25-30mm finished height.
I looked at a job last year where NMP was used on walls and floor - the walls cracked at 800mm high ( the same height as the boards width) inadequate support at the join meant slight movement transferred through the tile face! It’s the only board I know of that doesn’t recommend taping the joints, saying the ultra strong glue is all it needs. It wasn’t so in my view and since you don’t have any specified fixing method ( loose laid boards on a unprepared sub base ) with no glue under or between boards and screws without washers - well it’s going to fail!!
And they are not the same! Hardie is my preferred board.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 2, 2018

timeless john said:
It’ll be about 25-30mm finished height.
I looked at a job last year where NMP was used on walls and floor - the walls cracked at 800mm high ( the same height as the boards width) inadequate support at the join meant slight movement transferred through the tile face! It’s the only board I know of that doesn’t recommend taping the joints, saying the ultra strong glue is all it needs. It wasn’t so in my view and since you don’t have any specified fixing method ( loose laid boards on a unprepared sub base ) with no glue under or between boards and screws without washers - well it’s going to fail!!
And they are not the same! Hardie is my preferred board.

Thank you so much your knowledge again is helping more than I can express in words. The finished height is going to make it sit way to high compared to existing downstairs WC floor tiles and bifold door runners, which will look ridiculous because there was already a height difference first time round so this is going to be even more noticeable. I’m thinking my best option is tomorrow to tell them to rip everything up right down to the floor boards as this is just heading straight for another tiling disaster! I’m basically getting rid of a problem to create another one in its place by the sound of all the information I’ve got from the forum.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 2, 2018

Just another picture to show where I’m at already with the height difference between my bifold door runner and the floor and this is without underfloor heating tiles etc laid yet just the boards on top of existing adhesive etc. I’ve just forwarded this picture on to the joiner to tell him it will look ridiculous. Does anyone have any opinion on what I have said to him about this? Thanks in advance

Time's Ran Out · Dec 2, 2018

This area needed to be a seamless as possible and even with that unsupported edge you are going to have an unecessary step into the room!
You really have to make the decision to have the lot up and start from bare floorboards.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 2, 2018

timeless john said:
This area needed to be a seamless as possible and even with that unsupported edge you are going to have an unecessary step into the room!
You really have to make the decision to have the lot up and start from bare floorboards.

Thanks again. I just needed a professional opinion on it before I start with them! That full lot is coming up one way or another! I’ve heard enough lies and had enough excuses from them to last me a lifetime. Now knowing from this forum (which I’ll be forever grateful for, for all of the expert advice I’ve been given) that I’ve been right all along and they’ve been disregarding my concerns and opinions has pushed me to the point of no more patience or being nice about it.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 3, 2018

It’s now been took out of their hands on trusting them to take it all up so it’s now been stripped back to ply

we’ll see what is said tomorrow morning

Waluigi · Dec 3, 2018

I hope you finally get someone good to do the work. Nobody deserves the stress you must be going through with all of this.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 3, 2018

Waluigi said:
I hope you finally get someone good to do the work. Nobody deserves the stress you must be going through with all of this.

Thank you so much. I have been so
friendly and accommodating throughout all of this. But I think that has been taken as softness and taken advantage of. A bit off topic but
regarding the stress it has been making me unwell but the hardest part today for me was my 5 year old son absolutely breaking his heart crying telling me that Santa won’t find his house this year without a Christmas tree because the men have made the house to messy to have one. Then the joiner after trying to communicate with him and getting nowhere again disregarding what I had to say. I then mentioned that i had been seeking professional advice from an online forum and his reply to me was he doesn’t give a F what people on any forums have to say. As I said in an earlier post he must have a heart made of pure stone.

WetSaw · Dec 3, 2018

Looking at how cleanly that has come up surely even he can see that there was no bond at all to the ply.
The first thing to do now is check there's no deflection (bounce) in the floor.

Bill · Dec 3, 2018

Is that ply nailed down?

Waluigi · Dec 3, 2018

That 6mm ply has to come up.

We need to see what’s underneath. It needs insulation board on top of the sub floor before UFH is laid on top.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 5, 2018

Have some positive news for a change

!! After what you could call a heated Monday morning, we now have a new independent tiler who came highly recommended to us with a portfolio to back it up. He has agreed to take on the job and take full control of what gets done and what is needed and as unbelievable as it is
to me project manager agreed to pay the bill.

The tiler couldn’t believe it when he seen for himself that tiles had been infact laid on 6mm ply (think he thought we must have been exaggerating) and then when I showed him the same pictures that I have posted on here I got the exact same reaction that I received from this forum. I just wanted to come back and thank you all again for giving me that push to get the control back on my side and also for
encouraging me to get someone that I trust to do the work instead.

TF

Time's Ran Out

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Time's Ran Out

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Time's Ran Out

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Waluigi

TF

WetSaw

Bill

Waluigi

TF

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