1mm joint madness

[Rob Z]

G, the other problem with tight joints comes from the warpage of the face of the tile. Except for stone that is ground flat, all tile has warpage to some extent on the face. Some, in my experience, like Stonepeak and Porcelenosa, are about as flat as one can expect. Others, such as Impronta, look like a Pringles potato chip. And when the designer/showroom/owner says they want tight joints and even better-running bond-it just ain't happening with these tiles without major lippage.

I've had some ridiculous discussions with reps and designers about this issue. I've displayed their tiles with a straightedge across the face, or face-to-face, to show how the corners are warped...and invariably they say either 1. But they're rectified, so I want tight joints :mad2: or 2. a skilled tile setter should be able to handle that.:dizzy2:

 

[tfs]

1. But they're rectified, so I want tight joints :mad2: or 2. a skilled tile setter should be able to handle that.:dizzy2:

lol, a skilled tile fixer could do it with their magic wand!

 

[DHTiling]

a skilled tile setter should be able to handle that.

mmm if i had a pound for every time i heard that...

 

[charlie1]

If going down to 1mm joint, I find it benefical to use a darker grout. Reason being the tiles as you know are sometimes warped so if you are seting them brickbond then the corners or the tile will end up at with slight lip compaired with the middle section of the tile next to it, this will cast a shadow if using a lighter grout, however by going to a darker grout, the shadow becomes invisibile to an extent and gives a much nicer finish.

 

[Ken Bruty]

I've also had this scenario many times, especially with 60 x 30 porcelain tiles, then they want plinth lights fitted :yikes:, which highlights the fact that the lippage is there, I actually find them embarrassing to lay, because there is nothing that can be done to prevent the lippage, so I always talk my customers through this before I even attempt to start fixing.

 

[cornish_crofter]

I'm not an experienced tiler by any means but I do have an engineering backround.

The problem with reducing joint sizes is that you don't reduce the tolerences in the tile sizes at the same time.

So, if you start off with a 4mm joint and have 0.25mm tolerence in the tile sizes, you may just see it in the finished job. The tolerence is therefore 1/16th of the joint size.

Go down to 2mm and suddenly you get a tolerence of 1/8th of the joint size.......

....you can see where this is going, can't you

I looked at one tiling job where the customer said that she didn't like the wide joints commonly found on floor tiles. "Fine" I said "I'll use 2mm spacers as opposed to 4mm spacers" I left it at that. I didn't get the job, I think she decided not to retile. She did seem to like the idea though.

With that job it would not have given me a problem as the kitchen wasn't that wide. However with much larger floors you get what we engineers term as 'Tolerence Stack' I guess structural engineers and architects etc also have to take this into account, and may have the same name for it - I don't know.

Tolerence Stack is the effect of adding all the tolerences in an assembly as appropriate to give you an overall tolerence for the whole part/assembly

Imagine a tiled floor 4 metres wide. Lets assume you're using 300x 300. That will give you about 14 joints in that 4 metre span. If each tile is subjected to a .25mm tolerance, then that is about 3.5mm potential error between one column of tiles and the next. I know the tiles are laid progressively and that you'll never see tolerence build up but at 1mm grout joints it is something to consider.
This is where you need to take into account all the tolerences

 

[aph257]

i won't do a 1mm joint as you can't roll it that tight!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tfs]

This is a perfect example of why this is best to avoid!

These tiles were actualy mid range porcelain £20+ sqm

They werent alllike this to be fair but still this demonstrates that even porcelain isnt realy suited to 1mm joints

:yikes:

 

[DHTiling]

Christ!! where did that poop come from.?

 

[jay]

This is one of the things that drives me crazy. The designers and the sales people are pushing 1/16" and even 1/32" joints, and they JUST CAN'T GET IT THROUGH THEIR HEADS that this won't work on tile that has variation in the lengths of the sides.
Even when I show these knuckleheads two or three or four tiles, pulled at random and laid alongside each other, that the tiles are not the same dimension and the variation is more than 1/32" or 1/16", they still just say "but we want tight joints on this installation."

not easy
I say "did you not just see what I showed you with the tile we lined up?"
They say "but they're rectified, the manufacturer says so".
:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
GGRRRRRRR!!

might help if you explain to them what a rectified tile is (second grade) wouldn't recommend moving to OZ rec tiles 1.5 mm joints the norm

 

[nybor62]

1mm is crazy you can have enough probs with 2mm if tile sizes are all over the place

 

[tfs]

I got them from a leading retailer/ tile marchant but have used this range a few times and havent had this problem but it just shows that you do still get discrepancies in all tiles which can make 1mm joint spacing a bad thing

 

[DHTiling]

Those will make 5mm spacing hard..:lol:

 

[tfs]

Those will make 5mm spacing hard..:lol:

I couldnt even use them for cuts! due to the few tiles that were like this and a couple of broken ones in the box I had to go back to the shop to swap them over to have enough tiles to finnish the job.

 

[DHTiling]

Swap Shop.. was Noel there..:lol: