600 x 600 marble tile joints

[jaluka]

Matt i have an account at chester and getting good rates on the kerraquick at the moment but no go on the maxi

 

[Matt]

Matt i have an account at chester and getting good rates on the kerraquick at the moment but no go on the maxi

Hmmmm. If you have a trade account then I presume that is the trade price. (I don't sell much, if any, Keraflex Maxi at my store, so don't know the price off the top of my head)

TF Arms members get a special discount. Although, I am not sure if Keraflex Maxi is on there.

Can you PM me with the price you are paying for Keraquick?

 

[turnip]

back to the subject in hand, great advise on the screed side of things,just looked at a nice big limestone job, huge floors but wobbly day joints in the screeds, left in unusual angles. i doubt that the builder will even want to stretch to ditra (old school pikey that he is). Anyway, any advice whether insulation board would isolate the stone from the screed or if anyone has used that new crack isolation mat in a similar situation, I'd be interested to hear.

 

[jaluka]

Turnip i just purchased 75m2 of dura ci for £465 delivered, it is a small cost of the tiles themselves, i will sleep better knowing i have done all i could have in the situation i have found myself in.

 

[Stan001]

Jaluka – ref your cracks in the doorway, for future ref on UFH, where you have lots of your heating pipes running together (near manifold or going thro gaps) or you go through the doorway (you have two slab of screed effectively necking down together ) then you can put light square wire mesh (about 100mm squares) over the pipes to act as reinforcement to help eliminate cracking, the UFH firm I use actually shows where to insert it on the layout drawings. In fact we anchored the pipes on top of 250 square mesh throughout with the 100 mesh added on top just through doorways and at the manifold junction (also on top of Celotex and with fibre mix in the screed) I have a real doubt that it was your builder (was he a proper screeder?) putting a trowel across a doorway … in fact that sounds like total bs to me! (I tell you there is more bs in building than in farming … and that trowel comment really smelt of cow).
Are you flooring the same tile pattern between the rooms? If not you could insert a tile area to tile area threshold (Gemini) across the doorway, this will finish off each door in any case (by providing an aluminium threshold exactly under the door closed position) and effectively gives you a 10mm expansion gap hidden under the press-on ali plate? If you are flooding the tiling throughout the rooms without threshold then you have no choice but install and rely on the decoupling mat together with using the stress relive the screed ideas from Ajax.
… Stan

 

[Ajax123]

Jaluka – ref your cracks in the doorway, for future ref on UFH, where you have lots of your heating pipes running together (near manifold or going thro gaps) or you go through the doorway (you have two slab of screed effectively necking down together ) then you can put light square wire mesh (about 100mm squares) over the pipes to act as reinforcement to help eliminate cracking, the UFH firm I use actually shows where to insert it on the layout drawings. In fact we anchored the pipes on top of 250 square mesh throughout with the 100 mesh added on top just through doorways and at the manifold junction (also on top of Celotex and with fibre mix in the screed) I have a real doubt that it was your builder (was he a proper screeder?) putting a trowel across a doorway … in fact that sounds like total bs to me! (I tell you there is more bs in building than in farming … and that trowel comment really smelt of cow).
Are you flooring the same tile pattern between the rooms? If not you could insert a tile area to tile area threshold (Gemini) across the doorway, this will finish off each door in any case (by providing an aluminium threshold exactly under the door closed position) and effectively gives you a 10mm expansion gap hidden under the press-on ali plate? If you are flooding the tiling throughout the rooms without threshold then you have no choice but install and rely on the decoupling mat together with using the stress relive the screed ideas from Ajax.
… Stan

Hi Stan. I have seen mesh used across door thresholds in screeds but the problem from my own point of view is that it fails to meet the relevent British Standard code of practice. Also there is still the risk that a crack could occur later on once the coverings are down. If this happens it can cause a delamination event so I think it is better wherever possible to place a proper joint former to prevent the restraint in the door way of as you rightly describe two separate slabs necking down at the same point. Obviously this means a joint in the tile face as well.

If there is an issue later on and, as is happening more and more often in recent years, an independent report is drawn up, the report write is likely to pick up that the floor is not technically correct, and immediately the client, main contractor etc has a get out of jail free card and the screeder or tiler gets a bill.

Anhydrite is much more dimensionally stable than sand cement and so it is less risky from this point of view and I see very few of these joints installed and often without issue. My advice however will always be that the screed should be designed correctly so that issues are avoided.

 

[jaluka]

Hi Stan

I have had nothing to do with the build or extension so only know what i know through the lads still on site.
The screeding is fibred and was ready mixed, the lads who layed it are full time screeders so after reading the replies on here i find it hard to believe. (suppose they have had their money and the problems that may arise wont come back to them)
regarding the trowel line one threshold has not cracked and you can see
clearly a deep draw of the edge of a trowel or something simular.

I am tiling through all rooms but am going to create a dry joint over the cracks, i am installing uncoupling matting.

Thanks for advice though Stan

 

[Stan001]

1. it fails to meet the relevent British Standard code of practice. Also there is still the risk that a crack could occur later on once the coverings are down.
2. I think it is better wherever possible to place a proper joint former to prevent the restraint in the door way of as you rightly describe two separate slabs necking down at the same point. Obviously this means a joint in the tile face as well.

thanks Ajax - 1. i didnt know it didnt meet BS, that concerns me as Im dealing with a large outfit to lay my floors!

ref #2 would you please educate us as to what a proper joint former is, a hyperlink would be fine, and i'll check out what i need to instal next time - cheers mate. ... Stan

 

[Ajax123]

Springvale Insulations do one as do Schluter Systems.Both similar designs

Here is the link for the schluter one - look up Dilex DFP on page 6

Broken Link Removed

 

[Stan001]

Ajax
- sorry i misunderstand, i know the movement joints very well esp Schluter - i thought you were refering to something that is embedded deep IN the screed!
sorry - but thanks - Stan

 

[Stan001]

sorry again Ajax
i guess you refer to the Dil EZ, it seems to penetrate right down thro the screed, and that i have not looked at before - so thanks for that. Stan

 

[Ajax123]

sorry again Ajax
i guess you refer to the Dil EZ, it seems to penetrate right down thro the screed, and that i have not looked at before - so thanks for that. Stan

Negative Stan. The EZ is for putting stress joints into the tile face itself. The DFP is between 60mm and 100mm deep. The self adhesive strip on the bottom is designed to stick down the the slip membrane which goes under the screed or insulation. You then screed up to either side of the DFP strip so that you have a full depth compressible isolation strip in the screed. I actually use the springvale version which is blue but can't find a pic of that on line.

 

[Ajax123]

Negative Stan. The EZ is for putting stress joints into the tile face itself. The DFP is between 60mm and 100mm deep. The self adhesive strip on the bottom is designed to stick down the the slip membrane which goes under the screed or insulation. You then screed up to either side of the DFP strip so that you have a full depth compressible isolation strip in the screed. I actually use the springvale version which is blue but can't find a pic of that on line.

This might be of use

 

[mags]

Interesting reading this , I have found the installation guide also.

www.cawreyandco.co.uk/datasheets/installation_guide.pdf

 

[Stan001]

Negative Stan. The EZ is for putting stress joints into the tile face itself. The DFP is between 60mm and 100mm deep. The self adhesive strip on the bottom is designed to stick down the the slip membrane which goes under the screed or insulation. You then screed up to either side of the DFP strip so that you have a full depth compressible isolation strip in the screed. I actually use the springvale version which is blue but can't find a pic of that on line.

thx Ajax - i have the catalogue in my hand now and see the DFP right under the EZ70 .... however the description of the EZ 70 says it has the decorative profile at the tile level but also indicates it has 'soft PVC expansion zone for use in screeds' that seems to go right thro the screed underneath the profile. the isometric piccy also indicates that the EZ is active at the tile layer and the screed layer.
I think Id like to get hold of an EZ and DFP to play with them.

I know how to get hold of the Schluter man so i will ping him for his headsup.

but thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Stan