Chipboard with water UFH

[stoner]

Hi all,

Merry xmas and happy new year!!

been to look at a job today and they have installed water pipe UFH and then boarded over with chipboard. I explained that i would never tile onto chipboard even without the UFH. I've never come across this before, normally i would put backer boards down but i can't do this now. Floor was free from deflection.

Am i right in thinking Ditra-mat etc would be suitable for this?

 

[mattle40]

I think ditra would be your best option in this situation, just a shame you have to follow shoddy fitters, they get to save the customer money by using materials unfit for purpose but now you have to be the expensive one and spec ditra.

Best of luck

 

[Mike]

what's the chipboard fixed to? is it a floating floor?

 

[stoner]

Hi Mike,

yes floor is floating. Thanks for getting back so quickly, and to Mattle.

 

[Mike]

i wouldn't tile on to a floating floor. i've seen the boards seperate and i believe there's always deflection in the floor. i'm not saying it can't be done, others may say different

 

[Qwerty]

Im with Mike on this one.........I would walk away!

 

[DHTiling]

What is the wet system laid on ?

 

[Rich]

If it is a floating floor I wouldn't be happy tiling onto it, the Ditra will not take out the deflection in the floor.

If there was some way of fixing the chipboard down and making it rigid first, that would be different.

 

[doddy41]

I dont think ditra will work saw one last year exactly the same, the grout kept cracking when we lifted a tile and cut out a piece of ditra the chipboard had opened up on a joint by 10mm. We recommended a wood floor and luckly they took our advise

 

[stoner]

Just found out a little more info,

Chipboard is 22mm, not sure exact name but it's green, waterproof and pipes are layed on something like Alu-plate??? Pipes are almost touching the board underneath too.

Why does this keep happening to me???

 

[stoner]

Anyone? Please!!

 

[DHTiling]

Is it the polypipe system?

These should be secured to the substrate and if left floating then you will 100% have problems....as above the chipboard has created another problem...

 

[stoner]

Yes it Polypipe Dave

If customer was willing to rectify, would it be reboard with WBP or Marine? Not sure if pipes are fixed as you mentioned but he did say they were almost touching the underneath of the chipboard.

Not looking good is it?

 

[stoner]

Oh, might link this thread when i email him later!

 

[DHTiling]

Not looking good at present, they say you can tile directly onto this system, but IMO it would need more strength to it... hence why they floated a floor covering over it, ok for loose laid coverings but deffo not tiles.

The options are to use a fibre modified SLC to a suitable depth that it will not crack or over lay with BS 5385 min ply both options will need the polypipe system to be solid beforehand.

The ply would need fixing in situ without hitting the polypipe.

And then uncouple with Ditra or Dural CI+... I personally would not tile direct to such systems, overkill maybe to some but a way that will work..

 

[Gazzer]

I have used SLC and Dural Ci in the past on 2 jobs. No issues but I still dont like this system.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

I have used SLC and Dural Ci in the past on 2 jobs. No issues but I still dont like this system.

Me too, fingers crossed. On to poly pipe system direct though, not chipboard.

 

[Gazzer]

Me too, fingers crossed. On to poly pipe system direct though, not chipboard.

No not onto chipboard either. Direct SLC over pipe then Dural Ci, then tile.

 

[Rich]

Neale and Phil

So what was the make up of the floors that you tiled like this? I had to walk away from one a little while ago as it was covered in 6mm ply and floating.

So are you saying that the pipes are fixed down and then you just treat it as the electric UFH, as in SLC over the top and then tile? And does that mean that you get shot of the insulation foam they use?

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Hi Rich the floor I laid was solid screed, with slc done by a brain damaged chmp. Then the poly-pipe laid on top, I insisted they screwed the poly-pipe board down, then I encapsulated the whole lot with slc, then put the decoupler down.

If you search poly-pipe on here you will find a thread I started, asking for advice. I also stated a thread called my worst nightmare about the same job. Hope this helps.

 

[Gazzer]

Neale and Phil

So what was the make up of the floors that you tiled like this? I had to walk away from one a little while ago as it was covered in 6mm ply and floating.

So are you saying that the pipes are fixed down and then you just treat it as the electric UFH, as in SLC over the top and then tile? And does that mean that you get shot of the insulation foam they use?

The one job I did was laid with polypipe in their own fibreboard channels. i had them screwed firmly down before I would even go on the job.
It was then for me to SLC over the top and lay Dural Ci all over.
There was no insulation foam on my jobs.

 

[paul flight]

get in touch with schluter -ditra about this. we did a floor a few year back the same as . fixed matting down with ardex vinyl adhesive as advised by them . flexi adhesive + flexi grout . have not had any problems . but i would give them a call !!!!

 

[Rich]

Hi Rich the floor I laid was solid screed, with slc done by a brain damaged chmp. Then the poly-pipe laid on top, I insisted they screwed the poly-pipe board down, then I encapsulated the whole lot with slc, then put the decoupler down.

If you search poly-pipe on here you will find a thread I started, asking for advice. I also stated a thread called my worst nightmare about the same job. Hope this helps.

I am so happy that that is spreading :lol:

 

[stoner]

Hi,

Quick update;

I did'nt get this job in the end. Customer rang me to say he would be putting 9 ply on top of chipboard but could'nt expect me to tile on and he would tile it himself. Not sure if 9mm WBP exists so i'm betting he's put standard ply down and IF he primes it, it will be PVA.

I know of 3 tilers around my area running around putting 9mm ply down and tiling on, and what's worse i'm losing out on jobs to these idiots. Tbh i've just about had it with this game.

 

[Gazzer]

Hi,

Quick update;

I did'nt get this job in the end. Customer rang me to say he would be putting 9 ply on top of chipboard but could'nt expect me to tile on and he would tile it himself. Not sure if 9mm WBP exists so i'm betting he's put standard ply down and IF he primes it, it will be PVA.

I know of 3 tilers around my area running around putting 9mm ply down and tiling on, and what's worse i'm losing out on jobs to these idiots. Tbh i've just about had it with this game.

To be fair , Its not only this game/Trade. I am sure plumbers, Electricians etc have to deal with the same issues !!