courses

[Andrew Case]

Thanks for your input Phil. As you can see I'm not someone who thinks tiling is easy nor someone who thinks I know it all. So we should get along just fine.

 

[Andrew Case]

P.s I've already apologised for the sweeping statement made earlier, so we should be able to move past that

 

[True Tiling]

Let's make it very clear and simple here on THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN HOW TO TILE.

To learn to tile is this way ONLY:

1) Phone every tiler in the phonebook and get lucky with a good tiler who actually wants to take someone on.
2) Watch, listen, practice and learn for at least 1.5 years whilst taking a course at a reputable and government endorsed learning centre (free!).
3) Do not in anyway spend £hundreds on a Mickey Mouse course and wreck somebodies bathroom with £800/tiles in a flat 5 days.

Warning!

 

[Muse2k8]

And True Tiling takes things back around full circle.

How about this? If you dont agree with short courses then keep that opinion to yourself when people come to ask about doing a course? Many many people do these courses and go on to be very good, very skilled and very successful.

Negativity is not required...

 

[The D]

Ok you can shoot me down in flames if you like but saying one way is better than the other is just too general. There are a lot of factors that combined can make you a good tiler. If you have a good instructor (trades man lecturer or other) you will be off to a good start. Your instructor should have been at some point in his life on the tools making a living from tiling. They should have a good knowledge of the building industry and an understanding of how all the trades interact with each other.

IMO it is essential for an instructor to have a knowledge of the students individual learning style (Auditory Learners, Visual Learners, and Kinesthetic Learners) and in some students there learning disabilities. You can’t teach someone efficiently if you do not understand how they learn.

The students will all learn at different rates and that is another factor for the instructor, to have more work ready for the ones that pick it up and run with it. And to have the time to spend with the ones the prefer a steadier pace.

Once the individual is away from the learning environment it all becomes about how much they’ve picked up. For me I would say, the one that had the on the job training by a professional tiler will have picked up more but that is not always true.

I was not going to bang my drum but found I had to say something about the new tilers from the few day starter courses. I do not object to you coming in to the trade we need fresh blood. I do object to the way you are coming in to the trade after a few day starter courses and advertising your selves as professional tiler. Then trying to charge the same rate as a tiler that has served five years as an apprentice and then honed his skills for 20years. And when challenged on this point you have the gall to complain that you do not want to work with a professional tiler on minimum wage .

 

[Gazzer]

:hurray::hurray::hurray: Bang on Dean

 

[Andrew Case]

My only concern, from a business / industry point of view, is for those who do set up and can't / won't work along with a tiler, is that they choose to charge less than the going rate in recognition of their lack of experience and then going rates drop, or time served rulers struggle to get the top rate for jobs.
From some in this position who would love to work for a tiler but can't, I can either do a great job for a cheap price and screw up other tilers, or charge the same and keep rates up and respectable.
Plus I have to advertise tiling as something I can do, or I'd never get the jobs to get the experience.
It's a real catch 22 for older ones who genuinely care about the industry, want to work hard, but are restricted financially.
I totally agree with Dean though and can see it from all points of view.

 

[The D]

Personally I have no answers to the problem other than if it is ok for you to do it then it is ok for me to do the same, I am now advertising for Decorating, Plastering, Brick Laying, and carpentry. And I think all tilers should start to do the same thing see if you like it when the boot is on the other foot.

 

[Andrew Case]

Thats great. All the best with the new venture. I'm sure you will do fine.

 

[Andrew Case]

Btw you told me to grow up when I was sarcastic earlier in the post. So, I say the same to you, grow up Dean. Can you give it AND take it

P.s I am just being light hearted Dean. Really no offence intended.

 

[The D]

Btw you told me to grow up when I was sarcastic earlier in the post. So, I say the same to you, grow up Dean. Can you give it AND take it

P.s I am just being light hearted Dean. Really no offence intended.

Non taken m8. I do see your particular dilemma but it just grates on me some times the way the job is being dumbed down by these courses

 

[Andrew Case]

I know and I honestly agree. I think that people should realise that the courses only give you the basics, learning must continue. I also agree that a small percentage will benefit as some of the people on a course really struggled with some things I thought was easy. Those people, the ones who can't even use a tape measure, are gonna fail and the money will be wasted. You will be putting their work right if they ever do tiling for money

 

[suave]

luv this place:lol:

 

[Dan]

Ok you can shoot me down in flames if you like but saying one way is better than the other is just too general. There are a lot of factors that combined can make you a good tiler. If you have a good instructor (trades man lecturer or other) you will be off to a good start. Your instructor should have been at some point in his life on the tools making a living from tiling. They should have a good knowledge of the building industry and an understanding of how all the trades interact with each other.

IMO it is essential for an instructor to have a knowledge of the students individual learning style (Auditory Learners, Visual Learners, and Kinesthetic Learners) and in some students there learning disabilities. You can’t teach someone efficiently if you do not understand how they learn.

The students will all learn at different rates and that is another factor for the instructor, to have more work ready for the ones that pick it up and run with it. And to have the time to spend with the ones the prefer a steadier pace.

Once the individual is away from the learning environment it all becomes about how much they’ve picked up. For me I would say, the one that had the on the job training by a professional tiler will have picked up more but that is not always true.

I was not going to bang my drum but found I had to say something about the new tilers from the few day starter courses. I do not object to you coming in to the trade we need fresh blood. I do object to the way you are coming in to the trade after a few day starter courses and advertising your selves as professional tiler. Then trying to charge the same rate as a tiler that has served five years as an apprentice and then honed his skills for 20years. And when challenged on this point you have the gall to complain that you do not want to work with a professional tiler on minimum wage .

Only just read this. That's spot on that is. And that applies to all trades I think too.

What I will say about the short courses is obviously the experience is lacking etc.

In IMO a I'd rather have a guy do tiling work for me that has done a GOOD short course over a guy who hasn't ever done a course any day. Though I would like to know he's a budding tiler and not an experienced one, and I think that's possible to hear, and acceptable when you hear it. So newbies shouldn't be afraid to say they're new. But I find plasterers seem to assume they cover tiling too and give it a bash "got 10 years experience with this lot" when they mean plastering experience, not tiling. Plumbers too perhaps. And obviously that's generalising a lot as we all know some good plasterers & plumbers who do good tiling and whatnot.

I just find the terminology and differences in opinions with regards to who's 'experienced' is all too vague.

Which is why I always say to people check references. Lots of them. I do check myself too (which is awkward at times - but I bet it's only awkward when the guy has no good ones to give - which you spot as soon as you ask for some). Which is why I'd say newbies should start with work they can do, so they get good references, from jobs they've done well, and they'd gain experience then.

We all have to remember that before recent times, the options were do years of training, or non at all. And the split was 50/50. I think at least these days when it comes to SOME training, we could perhaps guess 70% or more do some form, even if short courses. Perhaps those who are still going 12 months down the line to longer courses then - as they realise they need more training, or at least know where to get manufacturers free info etc etc and put it into practise.

Waffled a bit there, sorry.

Great post that though Deano. I see more than too often that very same view just worded really badly on the sparky and plumbing forums and it causes small wars between "noobs" and "time-served".

 

[Dan]

I'm just bumping some of the tiling course & tiling training related threads. Ignore them if they're not current threads for you. They will drop back off the list in a week or so, and I don't do this much.