customer callback

[stevee]

hiya lads ,long time since i posted ,but here go`s

been going 3 and a half years now and had my first callback regarding blown CERAMIC tiles,which has cheesed me right off

kitchen floor , green chipboard flooring,overboarded with 12mm wbp ply screwed 6 inches,then primed

loose wire heating ,no slc,tiled onto with topps trade rapidset flexi 18 months ago

9 months ago customer calls me to tile his bathroom floor,while there pricing it ,he mentioned a tile strating to lift in the kitchen,i looked and he said ,"i know u warned us the existing c/b floor wasnt great"

and we left it at that, now 2 days ago ,an email from him 2 tiles have blown,one cracked

im going to look on sunday and am prepared for a costly outcome for me...........

but a bit of advice would be welome befre hand please boys

how will i tell if its thermal shock from heating on too soon?

and where do i stand legally ,im preparing myself for cost of tiles,ufh and return of my fee if its my fault

im hoping it aint ,cos its not the whole floor.....thanks lads

 

[DHTiling]

Hi, welcome back...

Was the chipboard onto joists..?

 

[kilty55]

hello are all tiles that are damaged in aline?

 

[stevee]

hiya lads, yes joists dave ,

they might be in a line ,wont know sure till i look sunday

steve

 

[charlie1]

Hi stevie, I have tiled on to heatmat once without slc and once was enough, I just can't see how you can get the right coverage doing it this way + its very messy! Don't accept liability so quickly, there are many reasons why it could have failed that are out with your control, could there have been a leak? Also you mention you have alerted customer to dodgy subfloor?... What did you say to them at the time? ... I know when its verbal its all worth nothing anyway but we have all heard the sob stories from customers in the past " can you not just do it bla bla" then you end up doing it for them knowing its not ideal

 

[stevee]

it may be down to my inexpierence at the time mate, the chipboard was looking old and had a tiny bit of bounce,which the ply did take out

there was a bit of board next to the problem area that i had to replace also noggin underneath

it would b nice if it was a leak ,as i remeber a blue polypipe under the problem area,below the joists

 

[Spud]

dont panic just yet go and have a look at it first

 

[stevee]

cheers gary, so any ideas for signs of thermal shock?

maybe it wont matter, he aint gonna hold his hands up to it

 

[macten]

Hardly any addy on the back of the tile and the slight bit that is feels like sand paper can be indicative of thermal shock.

 

[stevee]

thanks mate ,something too go on with,steve

 

[stevee]

right ive been and had a tile up today, 2 thirds of the floor has cracking grout,one third is fine

lifted a tile ,which didnt want to come easy[topps rapidset flexi]

i think its movement in the floor ,which i didnt think was as bad when i jumped up and down next to a glass water,when quoting

the addy seems to have come away near ply joints,awway from joints its stuck good on tile and ply,not just one or the other, warmup loose wire ,with their own green primer

im taking the whole floor up next week,and am probably gonna have to fork out over £700

i was hoping for thermal shock signs ,not that anyones going to admit to bad commisioning anyway

DAVE , u asked if it was onto joists , be interesed to hear yours or anyones views mate

im gonna takit on the chin ,[18 months into my career at the time] and put it down to expierence i reckon

 

[Ian]

Bit of a shame mate. This time check the floor is 100% deflection free, then glue and screw hardie/other cement board, then tile. Also in pic 2 it looks like you haven't back skimmed, make sure you do this time. Oh and take the ply out before all of the above!


Sent via Tapatalk for iPhone

 

[DHTiling]

This is why i do not like tiling direct to ply... too much cheap ply in the uk market and it can leach resin and this results in tiles de-bonding... you can see on pic 2 where the ply grain is embedded into the adhesive but de-bonded.. this is typical of cheap ply and UFH...

IMO you need to use a cement board to get a better bond... cover the UFH in SLC suitable for timber floors and then solid bed fix onto that.. making sure you back skim those tiles as well to create solid bed..

 

[Andy Allen]

is the floor a floating floor, chipboard on to insulation, these types of floors can be very bouncy, and imo not suitable for tiling..

 

[stevee]

joists mate ,no insulation , thanks for your input lads,steve

 

[stevee]

well on my last visit the customer was happy for me to redo the tiling ,after floor strengthening,but i told him no thanks.......once bitten
i told him id refund money too.
today i went to rip it all up and i found a water damaged area near to where the first cracked grout showed itself
looks like a fair bit of water sat there for a while,but they have told me absoluotly no washing machine or waste pipe leaks,which i find hard to swallow
heres the pics boys, showing underside ply and chipboard

so im not happy to refund all the money,ill contact him tonight

 

[Bubblecraft]

That's defo water damage. I wouldn't refund a penny as this looks to be the main cause. What guarantee did you give the customer on the floor?

 

[Gazzer]

Are there any water appliance near by that area. Deffo water damage but you cant say that is the sole reason for failure.
What is worrying to me is that in your first photos it shows tiles removed the floor fairly clean and the tape over the UFH with hardly a mark on it ?

 

[stevee]

i agree ,thats why i could still owe him but maybe not the full amount,washing machine and sink right there
just had another look ,i cut a channel in the ply to recess the probe ,its black as yer hat with mould ,its been sitting in a pool of water
if the leak occurred soon after fixing it wouldnt help
also would the probe give a lower reading in water ,in turn making them raise the temp?
wriggling out of stuff aint my scene ,just dont want to take all the flack if it aint mine,steve

 

[Andy Allen]

looks like a floating floor to me..

 

[Peter]

Looks like the water damage didn't help, but IMO flexible rapidset on it's own isn't suitable for that particular job. If tiling straight onto 18mm ply on the joists, bare minimum spec for me would be rubber crumb throughout and all joints taped. Had a few small, seemingly deflection free floors give problems in the past (tiles over joins popping) so now always overboard or use rubber crumb.

 

[stusgsx]

I've now started using Bal fast flex on all my wooden floor jobs since I noticed some hair line cracks in grout line in a floor I tiled Not long ago. Also I stopped using ply a couple years ago now.

 

[stevee]

hardie for me now.......

 

[martin1c]

The water damage didn't help but I'd say the ply was the main problem. I have no faith in ply whatsoever anymore.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

well on my last visit the customer was happy for me to redo the tiling ,after floor strengthening,but i told him no thanks.......once bitten
i told him id refund money too.
today i went to rip it all up and i found a water damaged area near to where the first cracked grout showed itself
looks like a fair bit of water sat there for a while,but they have told me absoluotly no washing machine or waste pipe leaks,which i find hard to swallow
heres the pics boys, showing underside ply and chipboard

so im not happy to refund all the money,ill contact him tonight

if you dont tile the whole floor only where the washing machine goes if this leaks it fills the void between ever side before it shows on the floor if whole floor tiled it comes out at your feet and can be delt with there and then not stay hidden making its way under the floor