Dilemma

[russ1980]

Hi
I've just started tiling on a part-time basis for friends and family and also a few recommends.I've done a few kitchens and bathrooms in my own houses.Alot of people comment on how neat it looks although my last bathroom and my biggest to date 20m took me 5days so not the quickest tiler.As i'm new to tiling my prices reflect this and i think there reasonable.The reason i'm posting is that i've had some interest from a local kitchen and bathroom fitter who so i'm told does alot of decent work for customers.He's asked me to do some regular tiling for him and he knows i'm not that experienced but says the quality of my work is better than the last tiler who worked for him(10yrs experience).My problem is he just expects me to tile on what ever surface he come across.he patches up the odd hole with some bonding but if the walls are'nt level he does'nt want to spend money leveling them.He tells me people don't want to pay to have their walls skimmed then tiled over or whatever prep work is necessary.The reason he got rid of his last tiler of 10yrs is because he was cutting corners all the time and was always getting called back because tiles were cracking up or the grout was falling out.I'm not sure what to do am i just being fussy about the surfaces i'm willing to tile.The work will be regular he's already guranteed me work until the end of october.Other tradesmen who have worked for him told me he's good at his job and has always got work mainly through recommends.What would other members do?

 

[Gazzer]

I think you have already answered the question.

 

[Saltire69]

You can only try it Russ. If he's got work till October it'll keep you busy as well. Your not always going to get a perfect wall to tile, you've just got to over come this. i.e give it a quick skim with rapid set. Good luck.

 

[Rich]

Sorry mate but he is not good at his job, he is cutting the corners by saying that "people dont want to pay for that", that translates as " Im not paying to do it properly, I want it to look nice and thats enough". Trust me, I have dealt with sooo many like this, I would be worries that he wants you to do the work because he knows that your prices are low and he can make a lot of money off your head. No, you are not being fussy at all, at the end of the day you will be responsible for the tiling, if it goes wrong, it will be you out of pocket. Tradesmen like this seem to think that all there is to tiling is making a wall or floor look nice, they have no idea that there is so much more to it than that.

I wouldnt try to talk you out of working for this guy but I would warn you to be very careful and be aware that bad jobs lead to a bad reputation.

 

[russ1980]

Cheers rich
Thats the problem as long as it looks nice on the outside and the customers happy and hands over the money he's not bothered.But when the tiles start falling off it will be my fault and my reputation.It's just so tempting not just because of the money but also the experience.I think i might be a little fussy too.An example of this is if i was to hold a spirit level on a wall and it was out 4-5mm i would have the wall skimmed or if they were really bad i 'd get someone to board the whole room out.So as you can see i really like flat walls.Am i just living in a fantasy world wanting flat walls all the time.Would wanting it this way just lose me work because more work=more money
Also skimming over a wall with adhesive to level it up is this standard practice.

 

[Rich]

We all want flat walls/floors all the time but unfortunately this doesnt make it so. With all respect, it is not hard to make a floor or wall look good when the substrate is totally flat and level, the mark of a true pro is somebody that can get over problems like uneven substrates whilst still being able to guarantee the work and make it look amazing. When tiling uneven walls, you have to build out a certain amount, you have to be aware of the max depth of your adhesive (most ready mixed adhesive is max 3mm and most cement based adhesive is around 10mm) and also the weight limits of the substrate that you are tiling. If you have to compromise either of these then the walls needs to be sorted before tiling, if not then it comes down to your skill.

 

[russ1980]

So are you saying that tubbed adhesive should only be used on the flattest of walls if it can only be built out 3mm.And would you recommend using powdered instead.

 

[Gall.B]

Most pro's dont touch tubbed especialy on larger tiles and dont use it in wet areas

I only use blue star on gyproc in non wet areas or splashbacks, the rest powderd

 

[Gall.B]

Sound a bit sus the tiler he used for 10 years just started doing dodgy work or he just got fed up of it after 10 years. Think there might be more to it maybe price?

 

[Rich]

Sound a bit sus the tiler he used for 10 years just started doing dodgy work or he just got fed up of it after 10 years. Think there might be more to it maybe price?

I think he meant that the last tiler had 10yrs experience.

I dont use tub at all. It has its place but it is very important to be aware of its limitations. It shouldn't be used on tiles over 300x300, max depth of around 3mm, only suitable for ceramics and as said above not ideal for wet areas. All this varies with the brand and you should always check the info with the product but I would only really use it on small ceramics for sat a kitchen splash back. I much prefer a good powder adhesive, you need to mix it up but is much better IMO.

 

[russ1980]

Have decided not to work for this bloke now.Although he offered me more money than i charge customers now and regular work i don't want to be tiling onto just any surface and forever being called back for repairs. because the prep wasn't right.Its hard enough starting out in this profession as it is and want people to recommend me for the quality of my work and not how cheap i am.Thanks for all your replies. much appreciated.
Ps
Can anyone tell me how to get in to the tilers arm forum.I would like to ask some more experienced tilers about pricing of jobs.
Thanks

 

[Brian the Tile]

dont let other people put you off if you make a good job well go for it not all the walls will be that bad ,as for adhesive everybody has there own opinions bu t i have been tiling for the past 39 years and have seen a lot i always use ready mixed adhesive on my walls and never had a problem yet with it i say go for it give the man a chance he must be ok surely if he can keep yo in work for that long ,good luck

 

[Rich]

If you want access to the arm you will need to send a private message to admin (Dave) and he will tell you how to get in




With regards to the work, at the end of the day it comes down to your choice. I dont use ready mixed adhesive, not that there is anything wrong with it, it is just that it has a lot of limitations and can only be used on certain substrates and with certain tiles. I use a good cement based adhesive, its better in every way IMO. Many people like Brian above use and like ready mixed adhesive but it seems that most people that use it haven't done research and just use it because it is easy and not because it is suitable.
Do a search on here and have a read through about ready mixed vs powder and you will get an idea of when and how to use it, as I have said it is very important to know its limitations.

 

[Brian the Tile]

when i started tiling at fifteen years old as a apprentice tiler tiles wall and floor were all fixed with sand and cement most people wouldnt know where to start as they say when tilers were tilers not just lid kickers,adhesive started to arrive on the scene soon after bal tad was the one we used ,adhesive in buckets ready mixed is available to this day with good guarrantees so i for one cant see where the problem lies like i say thirty odd years should stand for something but each to there own and whatever you feel right with

 

[DHTiling]

http://www.tilersforums.com/tiling-forum/7477-wheres-door-tilers-forums-arms.html

 

[Rich]

Indeed Brian, like I said, there is nothing wrong with it as long as people are aware of the limitations. It is only suitable for a very small percentage of wall tiling as it is not suitable for any tiles over the size of 300mmx300mm and tiles are just getting bigger and bigger these days. It also breaks down if it comes in contact with moisture, it has a max depth of only 3mm and is not suitable for any kind of tiles other than ceramics. So it is fine (IMO) for kitchen splash backs and non-wet areas with small ceramic tiles but id rather stick to powder, like yo say, each to their own. No offense meant but I know tilers that have been tiling for over 40 years and prime with PVA, tile onto chipboard and use match sticks as spacers, years dont seem to mean much in this industry. Im not trying to paint you with the same brush and I wasn't disagreeing with your post, but I wanted to make Russ aware of the limitation of ready mixed adhesive as he has said that he is inexperienced.


We seem to have come away from the topic here, sorry Russ.
Keep us posted on how you get on and what you decide to do.