Do customers need to take the blame when they've employed a tiler and it goes wrong?

[Dan]

Okay so I'm not going to link to or mention any specific threads going on but we see this quite a bit. A customer has a "tiler" in, and the job isn't going well. Wrong products used or dot and dabbing going on or whatever.

We obviously quickly point out that the person doing the job couldn't possibly be a tiler. They do t have any skills or experience. Probably just winging it.

It seems not always are they the cheapest to have quoted too. And sometimes they've been recommended by somebody like a tile shop who should know better.

So it brings me to the question, should the customer take some of the blame for not checking references, not checking qualifications, or something else that us being in the trade would possibly do? - side question, would we actually check if we were recommended a plumber or sparky or something?

Discuss.

See if we can come up with some advice perhaps that I can create a new thread or page with and sticky in the find a tiler forum and blog about or even make leaflets that can be downloaded by stores etc perhaps.

 

[AliGage]

Bang goes the can of worms! Lol

I'll come back to this later but short answer Dan is yes. If they've failled or neglected to confirm any recommendations then sorry on their heads be it.
I've just had someone out to quote me for some bespoke fencing a few days ago. Begrudgingly mind because I hate parting with my money on things I can do myself. But i shortlisted 4 on recommendations and websites etc. Checked reviews and even got intouch with two people this guy has made bespoke items for (timber arches, etc)
Didn't bother to then call upon the other three. Every checked out and I was happy. Then boils down to price, and if I can afford him then that's who I will use.

Many people put price above anything else. Which I think it's wrong. Quality and ability first. If I can't afford the right person now I'll save until I can.

But on another note, I do think some official, formal skills recognition is required for us tilers. NOT rated people reviews!

 

[Dan]

Nah I didn't intend on opening a can of worms lol

I can see it from both sides of the story. But wondered if we discussed it, we could perhaps come up with some recommendations for tile shops or tilers or customers or all of them perhaps.

 

[macten]

I know if I'm doing a customers bathroom and I've finished for the day 99% of the time you'll see the bathroom light on or movement in the window as you're reversing out the drive. I'd be the same; as soon as a trader's left I'll be inspecting their work. What amazes me on some of the threads I see is that they've been let back in after the first day let alone let them see it through to completion.

 

[AliGage]

Out of interest how do the TTA vet it's members?

 

[Dan]

Out of interest how do the TTA vet it's members?

They don't vet per se. I don't think anyway. You need an existing member to invite you or approve you or something I think.

But it seems on their website they're not asking for that these days. I know they are doing a big push and want more tilers to join them. So perhaps they've scrapped that rule now.

How to join The Tile Association
Membership of The Tile Association is open to any business that works in or is associated with the wall and floor tile industry in the United Kingdom. We have stringent membership requirements and as such will request information relating to your company finances and company reputation. Fixers and tiling contractors will need to provide customer references and some projects may be inspected.

We will ask you for:

• Annual accounts (minimum 2yrs trading)
• For independent tile fixers, we require proof of a minimum of 2 years tiling experience instead of annual accounts.
• Customer Care Policy (if not we will ask you to agree to the Tile Association Customer Care Policy. ).
• Completed application form, see below
• Completed Direct Debit form

 

[AliGage]

I think some kind of affiliate is what's needed. Most other trades have them now. But perhaps too many in some areas. But....

Sparks - part P
Heating engineers - Gas safe
Fitters - KBBI

Most average customers let alone your run of the mill tiler hasn't heard of the TTA.
They have there applications laid out in CTD near me, but what about the likes of Topps? Where's the exposure of the cowboy tilers? You see it on Cowboy builders where home owners have been rinsed for 10's of thousands. Some floors can cost 5 figures. Once you include tiles as well it easily does.

What needs to happen is both client and fully fledged tiler needs some form of protection. A standard that MUST be adhered to and a body to contact to vet, seek advice and expose this that cannot do this job.

And not every man with a trowel in his tool kit can DO this job

 

[SJPurdy]

Out of interest how do the TTA vet it's members?

On a different forum, some time ago, a member of TTA said that they hadn't ever been checked!
Another tiler whose work I considered to be poor (again some time ago), was a member; and that was the reason I never bothered to apply to be a member!

I would never trust any tradesman just because they had paid to be a member of a trade association. Thinking about it i'm now feeling a bit neglected as I havn't had any post recently asking me to pay £££££ to be master(whatever).

 

[SJPurdy]

When buying a car most people check that it has a recorded service history.
When buying a house you buy what you see; you may get a certificate that woodwork has been treated, that windows have been fitted by a Fensa member, boiler, insulation, damproof, etc etc; but for tiling!
I think generally every building should have a log book/record file that contains details of all work done and the tiler will have to specify what materials have been used and confirm that they have been used correctly to sign off their work.

 

[Dan]

Let's chat about TTA membership in a thread of its own if you want to chat about that. This one is for the initial question in the first post lads. Cheeeeeers.

 

[Glynn]

The customer must take responsibility for any tradesmen that they choose to employ, but is it not up to that trade to make sure anyone calling themselves "skilled or qualified" really is at a standard, that is recognised as a quality standard. We have a good quality, robust and instantly recognised standard, its called City & Guilds, but no one I know is ever asked for it. I went to college for two years, then did an NVQ3, got a job teaching at college City & Guilds level 2+3, now doing technical support and I have never been asked to prove I am qualified. If professional people don't check, how can we expect the public to ask. And I am not for one minute saying that only tilers that have been to college can tile. I work with, and pass work onto a couple of tilers who have never set foot in a college or training centre and I have total trust in their approach, knowledge and ability to do a fully professional job every time. We maybe should adopt the Australian approach that you must be registered for your trade, prove you have the knowledge for your trade and can be prosecuted by the police if you're not registered. Then the public will have confidence that their chosen "Tiler" really is a Tiler.

 

[Dan]

The customer must take responsibility for any tradesmen that they choose to employ, but is it not up to that trade to make sure anyone calling themselves "skilled or qualified" really is at a standard, that is recognised as a quality standard. We have a good quality, robust and instantly recognised standard, its called City & Guilds, but no one I know is ever asked for it. I went to college for two years, then did an NVQ3, got a job teaching at college City & Guilds level 2+3, now doing technical support and I have never been asked to prove I am qualified. If professional people don't check, how can we expect the public to ask. And I am not for one minute saying that only tilers that have been to college can tile. I work with, and pass work onto a couple of tilers who have never set foot in a college or training centre and I have total trust in their approach, knowledge and ability to do a fully professional job every time. We maybe should adopt the Australian approach that you must be registered for your trade, prove you have the knowledge for your trade and can be prosecuted by the police if you're not registered. Then the public will have confidence that their chosen "Tiler" really is a Tiler.

Awesome post. Makes sense.

Do you think it's reasonable for a customer to ask for ands check references. Then whether the tiler is qualified or not it perhaps a doesn't matter. If their work appears spot on, perhaps it's the best chance a customer has? Obviously won't be able to pull tiles off to see how and what they're fixed with. But can see if there is lipping or bad grout or Silicon all over the place etc perhaps?

 

[Glynn]

Yes I do think its reasonable to check references. Its so easy these days with the internet, local tile shops, TTA and even friends and family. These customers do not know a good or bad tiling job till it is finished, they tile once every 20 years so do not understand what's needed and will often be led by price not abillity. It would be nice if it could be policed that if you are not a registered tiler you cannot tile, but we are a long way from that. How many Rogue Trader type programs must the public watch before they grasp that its simple to find a good tradesman and check them out first, till then the cowboys will still ride off into the sunset with someone's hard earned cash.

 

[Andy Allen]

Can't understand why some of them pay in full then moan about the ruff tiling afterwards .....
Any tradesmen worth there salt would not except a final payment until the customer was full satisfied.......
All this.... I need a few bob here and there to finish.... must surely send alarm bells ringing...

 

[Dan]

Can't understand why some of them pay in full then moan about the ruff tiling afterwards .....
Any tradesmen worth there salt would not except a final payment until the customer was full satisfied.......
All this.... I need a few bob here and there to finish.... must surely send alarm bells ringing...

There's actually the law that comes into play there. If you withhold funds, and try to take them court, you won't win for sure. You're meant to pay, show you've paid, show you've let them have a chance to correct the issue, and show the job is still substandard, then you'd win the money back and they'd enforce CCJ or whatever if it isn't paid.

Obviously I'm not a legal bod.

But that info is via a few threads on here that we've had before now.