Failed Adhesive?

[DTHulse]

Hi all, first post is a real problem. Concrete floor primed OK, self levelling compound used, heating wires laid and covered with more of same self levelling compound, left to dry for 4 days and then quartz tiles laid with flexible adhesive / cement. Used top quality products all suitable for undefloor heating and yet the tiles are lifting with all the cement stuck to the tile and almost none to levelling compound below it. Room was dry and no dust and followed instructions so anyone any ideas as to what has gone wrong? Did I miss something? Anyone know anyone who can do technical investigations to find out what happened?

 

[Del W]

Welcome to TF. Was the UFH on while tiling was done.

 

[DHTiling]

Hi and welcome..

Which quartz tiles are they.?

Also are they suitable for use with UFH.?

 

[Andy Allen]

dont think your supposed to use quartz tiles with ufh...

 

[mattle40]

What brand was the levelling compound? And is this still sound and solid?

 

[Andy Allen]

allso what primer did you use?

 

[kilty55]

adhesive type also please?

 

[John Benton]

Not sure if these tiles are compatible with UFH, never fitted them with it. I would imagine that the heat may have some effect on the resin content (up to 95% in some). You will probably have to speak to tile supplier IMO.

 

[DTHulse]

Welcome to TF. Was the UFH on while tiling was done.

Hi, no the UFH was not one and not used for over a week after the tiles had been laid

 

[Time's Ran Out]

The answer may be in the other 2 replies!

 

[DTHulse]

Hi, I know tnat some are not though but have manufacturers guarantee they are OK with UFH. Can't see a problem with the tiles as the adhesive is stuck solid to them but not to the levelling compound below. It seems like a failed between the levelling compound (which is all intact) and the adhesive. And ideas why the two layers would part company so completely?

 

[DTHulse]

Hi, adhesive was Ultra SB Rapid Set Flexible.

 

[DTHulse]

Hi, primer? No, didn't use any primer on the levelling compound that covered the electrical trace / heating wires. Should I have done?

 

[DHTiling]

Using the UFH to early could have shocked the adhesive breaking the bond.

Maybe some pics , so we can see what you do. ?

 

[Rookery]

Gulfstone state that the adhesive used to fix their stone should be 2 part latex based though I dont know if your use of water in the mix caused this problem. Maybe the slc covering was dusty when you fixed the tiles, maybe the ufh was switched on too soon and too high initially.

 

[DTHulse]

Gulfstone state that the adhesive used to fix their stone should be 2 part latex based though I dont know if your use of water in the mix caused this problem. Maybe the slc covering was dusty when you fixed the tiles, maybe the ufh was switched on too soon and too high initially.

Hi, thanks for those ideas but the floor was cleaned before applying adhesive and that was spread thinly on the floor with serated blade to "bind" it to the levelled floor and also then on the tile. Makers of Ultra say only 2/3 days and you can use the ufh as normal and we waited longer than than. Something though has caused the adhesive not to bond to the levelled suface or for that bond to break very cleanly with no adhesive on the floor but all on the tile. Does anyone know who can investigate this type of failure? As mentioned, primer was not used on the levelled floor before fixing the tiles? Should that have been used?

 

[swanman]

Pictures would be good to get a better understanding of the situation

 

[swanman]

Did you back butter the tiles before layinf them

 

[Discount Tile Supplies]

Get Ultra to have a look for you and ask the tile shop to do the same.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Get Ultra to have a look for you and ask the tile shop to do the same.

same as ask ultra if they would send someone out from there tech -dept to advise on why there adhesive failed in this instance

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Dusty sub straight ,Adhesive mix wrong, Adhesive skinned, Heating on, or used, did you apply the Adhesive to the tile and then the tile to the floor,or did you comb the floor with adhesive then set the tile, did you back skim the tile you were fixing?

 

[DTHulse]

Dusty sub straight ,Adhesive mix wrong, Adhesive skinned, Heating on, or used, did you apply the Adhesive to the tile and then the tile to the floor,or did you comb the floor with adhesive then set the tile, did you back skim the tile you were fixing?

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies and to catch up on the last few - floor cleaned section by section as tiles laid; combed adhesive to the floor tile by tile and also combed adhesive on the tile (all Ultra recommended thicknesses); heating not even connected until over a week after tiles had been laid: pictures would only show the levelled floor with no adhesive and all adhesive on the back of the tile;

Have asked Instarmac (makers of Ultra) for tech help and sent then tile section for them to look at the cement that is affixed to it and check the mixe, thickness etc.; their initial reaction is that primer should have been applied to the levelled floor and that's the problem.

Any more ideas?

 

[Perry]

what levelling compound and was the heating turned on slowly increased day by day

 

[DTHulse]

what levelling compound and was the heating turned on slowly increased day by day

Hi, the levelling compound was Granfix Solo18 (as recommended for ufh) and left 4 days to dry before fixing tiles. Cleaned section by section as tiles laid as decribed earlier post. Heating not even connected for week after tiles laid and checked with Instarmac (makers of Ultra SP adhesive) who said OK to use normally. As was summer time, only used very low for short period in morning but tiles started to lift some weeks later.

 

[Discount Tile Supplies]

i would get a site visit from Ultra and Granfix. Let them battle out whats the problem. Ask the shop you bought products from to ask suppliers. Dont go back to shop laying down the law down as it will get their back up. They will help you if you ask them.