First tiling job - spookily similar to dantheram's thread

[champ222]

Hi all

I'm about to start my first tiling job ever, which will be the kitchen floor (approx 3.2m x 3m)

Its a concrete floor that is currently covered in very thin black tiles (bitumen i think?), and the first job it to remove these. i have no idea how easy, or not, this will be.

The tiles will be those cheap £7 per sq/m jobs from B&Q in a beige / black checkerboard. I know there cheap tiles, but funds are fairly low since we have just bought our first house, and its definately "a project".

I plan on using a 150w underfloor heating kit (not the only source of heat) from Ambient Elec.

Having thought about it, and discussed with Ambient Elec, it seems to me that the best way to proceed (once the black tiles are up) is as follows:

Lay the marmox boards over the whole floor with tile adhesive.
Lay the heat mat in the centre of the kitchen (not where the cabinets will be).
Use self levelling compound over the whole floor to seal in the mat, and bring the rest of the floor upto the same level.
Tile the floor with adhesive.


I have questions though please guys.

1) am i likely to have any issues fitting the marmox boards if the floor is not perfectly flat first?
2) do i need to prime the floor before fitting the boards?
3) should i tape the joints on the boards?
4) should i board right up to the edge of the wall? as close as possible?
5) can you suggest a decent adhesive for this task? Ambient elect supply Everbuild flexiplus 711 any good??
6) ive read around the web, that the temperature probe of the underfloor heating kits is thicker than the mat, and that i may need to "chisel" some of the floor out, is this true? whats the best way of dealing with this with boards?
7) can you suggest a decent slc thats good for a first timer (this is the bit that i'm most dreading) Ambient Elec supply FebFlor Heatflex Any good??
8) do you have to do the whole room in one go? how do you stop it going into other rooms?
9) can i use the same adhesive that i used for the board to lay the tiles? (which ever i go for) what colour is best for beige and black checkerboard?
10) Do i have to worry about grout and adhesive/tile compatibility? or does any grout work with any adhesive?
11) once i have done the kitchen floor, i then have to fit the new kitchen, then i will go back and continue to tile through to the hallway, in the same tiles. This maybe a few months later, am i likely to encounter any problems doing this?

Thanks in advance for any advice guys.

 

[Colour Republic]

Hi all



I have questions though please guys.

1) am i likely to have any issues fitting the marmox boards if the floor is not perfectly flat first?
No
2) do i need to prime the floor before fitting the boards?
Yes
3) should i tape the joints on the boards?
You can if you like
4) should i board right up to the edge of the wall? as close as possible?
leave a small gap
5) can you suggest a decent adhesive for this task? Ambient elect supply Everbuild flexiplus 711 any good??
I wouldn't use everbuild but adhesive brands are personal choice
6) ive read around the web, that the temperature probe of the underfloor heating kits is thicker than the mat, and that i may need to "chisel" some of the floor out, is this true? whats the best way of dealing with this with boards?
you channel out in the marmox not the sub floor, this can be done with a stanley knife
7) can you suggest a decent slc thats good for a first timer (this is the bit that i'm most dreading) Ambient Elec supply FebFlor Heatflex Any good??
never used it. i'd use Mapei Fibreplan or Tilemaster Ultraflex myself
8) do you have to do the whole room in one go? how do you stop it going into other rooms?
yes it is best to do the whole floor in one go. place a battern in the door way to stop it getting out
9) can i use the same adhesive that i used for the board to lay the tiles? (which ever i go for) what colour is best for beige and black checkerboard?
yes you can - grey or white with ceramics, just work clean
10) Do i have to worry about grout and adhesive/tile compatibility? or does any grout work with any adhesive?
best to keep to one manufacturer but you shouldn't have problems if you don't
11) once i have done the kitchen floor, i then have to fit the new kitchen, then i will go back and continue to tile through to the hallway, in the same tiles. This maybe a few months later, am i likely to encounter any problems doing this?
You may do yes unless you buy all the tiles at the same time. If you don't then 1) it is almost guaranteed they will be from diferent batches so may be a slight different colour 2) if you are buying from B&Q then they could have sold out and changed tiles, especially if it's some sort of 'deal' where they have bought a cheap container and have no plans on getting more in.

Thanks in advance for any advice guys.

In addition I would re think you're tile choice, it seems silly to spend all that money on UFH then cover it in a cheap tile. If you decided to change it at a later date you may well damage the UFH

 

[cam_low]

Good advice there CR.

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Yep, all questions answered above spot-on as usual.

What's our tiling experience ?

Its a fair challenge for a DIY jobby and not to be under-estimated

 

[champ222]

Hi guys, Thanks for the help Colour republic. Much appreciated!

could someone reccomend a suitable tile adhesive that is easy to work with that suits my needs? Is there a rapid-ish set that has a work time of a few hours, rather than 40 mins or so?

All tiles (both hall and kitchen) will be purchased together to avoid stock issues. Although yes they are cheap tiles, and maybe it does seem daft to do all this work for cheap tiles, but i actually like the tiles, and i dont feel that spending a shed load more cash on swankier tiles will make much of a difference to me. The price of underfloor heating isnt that high either (in the grand scheme of things) Its looking like the adhesive/slc/grout/boards are as costly as any other part of this process, and SLC and insulation boards would probably be a good idea regardless of UFH and tile type? or am i off base here?

My tiling experience is Nill, however, i am happy to have a crack at this, i dont expect professional results, but i'd be happy with well prepared, and good diy results. The whole house needs to be re-done, so ive got to do most of the work myself where possible. I'm a reasonably practical chap and i can turn my hand to most thinks really, but i work at a slow and steady pace, hence my question about an adhesive with a longer work time, but i cant wait days for the stuff to dry.

Thanks again for your help! i do really appreciate the assistance.

 

[Saltire69]

Mapei keraflex is a slow setting addy, but if it's a hall your doing as well, will u need to walk on it earlier. I would use kera quick, just mix up say 1/4 bag and concentrate on the middle area's (full tiles). Just mix up more as you go and then leave to dry,approx 3hrs. Then do your cuts the following day. Do your cuts and then mix addy.

 

[champ222]

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

Ive been researching which products to use, and i am currently at the following decision:

Floor Primed with Mapei Primer G
Then Fit Marmox Boards with Mapei KERAQUICK Grey
Then prime again? or will slc be ok straght on top?
Fit underfloor heating mat
Level floor to top of heating mat with Mapei Ultraplan Renovation
Tile with Mapei KERAQUICK GREY
Grout with Mapei Ultracolour Plus - no idea what colour would work with black and beige checkerboard??

Does this look ok? What would you change?

Thanks again guys

 

[champ222]

sorry for the bump guys, but does my choice of products seem ok?

Cheers

 

[dantheram]

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

Ive been researching which products to use, and i am currently at the following decision:

Floor Primed with Mapei Primer G
Then Fit Marmox Boards with Mapei KERAQUICK Grey
Then prime again? or will slc be ok straght on top?
Fit underfloor heating mat
Level floor to top of heating mat with Mapei Ultraplan Renovation
Tile with Mapei KERAQUICK GREY
Grout with Mapei Ultracolour Plus - no idea what colour would work with black and beige checkerboard??

Does this look ok? What would you change?

Thanks again guys

shouldn't have to prime on top of the board / heating mat should you?

love how this is exactly the same as my job - i'll put pics up when i'm done.

 

[Andy Allen]

ever heard the saying, you get what you pay for..?

B & Poo tiles are pants, and B & Poo £7.00 m2 tiles are double pants.

you are going to be spending a small fortune, on the materials for your job, bare in mind you will only cover about 2m2 per 20kg bag of slc, then theres the adhesive, backer boards, ufh, grout..

unless your doing a make over to sell, I would seriously consider visting a decent tile shop, and see what deals you can get..

 

[jgrant]

The black adhesive on the floor may be re-activated by the water in the adhesive you fix the Marmox. This could lead to adhesive failure. If the original bitumen adhesive is solvent based then this is unlikely, but you may consider mechanically fixing the boards in addition to sticking them down.

 

[dantheram]

ever heard the saying, you get what you pay for..?

B & Poo tiles are pants, and B & Poo £7.00 m2 tiles are double pants.

you are going to be spending a small fortune, on the materials for your job, bare in mind you will only cover about 2m2 per 20kg bag of slc, then theres the adhesive, backer boards, ufh, grout..

unless your doing a make over to sell, I would seriously consider visting a decent tile shop, and see what deals you can get..

Ultraplan renovation SLC's stated coverage is -

COVERAGE: approx. 6m2 at 3mm thickness

Surely you'll get more than 2sqm?? unless you want it real thick.

I've got 2, 25kg bags so according to the manufacturer, enough for 12sqm at 3mm

Am i missing something?

 

[Andy Allen]

Ultraplan renovation SLC's stated coverage is -

COVERAGE: approx. 6m2 at 3mm thickness

Surely you'll get more than 2sqm?? unless you want it real t

I've got 2, 25kg bags so according to the manufacturer, enough for 12sqm at 3mm

Am i missing something?

yes, big time, to fully incase the ufh on 12m2 expect to use 4 to 6 bags.....imo

 

[dantheram]

yes, big time, to fully incase the ufh on 12m2 expect to use 4 to 6 bags.....imo

sorry my mistake - I haven't got 12sqm I've have 8sqm to cover.

Rang mapei and and got the exact coverage - it's 1.7kg per mm per sqm.

So for me - 1.7 x 3.5 x 8 = 47kg of screed. I've got 50kg so Should be fine.

 

[Colour Republic]

I fear you're going to be a bag short there at least.

yes on paper your mathematics work. Sub floor + 2mm heating wire + 1.5mm of SLC over = 3.5mm. However unless all of your heating wires are perfectly laying flat to the sub floor (which I have never seen!) then some will be poking through the top of your SLC at 3.5mm, also keeping in if you have used a heating mat that adds another 1mm. So now your playing with 0.5mm of SLC over the wires. Now unless you're some sort of SLCing God, it's never gonna happen!

I'd allow for minimum of 5mm SLC and even then I'd like a spare bag as back up.

 

[Colour Republic]

Also you may want to check about priming the boards as it is required.

normal order is to prime the boards, lay the heating, don't get dust on the floor then SLC

 

[Andy Allen]

like I said ive covered loads of heating mats and always allow 2/3m2 per bag..

 

[dantheram]

I fear you're going to be a bag short there at least.

yes on paper your mathematics work. Sub floor + 2mm heating wire + 1.5mm of SLC over = 3.5mm. However unless all of your heating wires are perfectly laying flat to the sub floor (which I have never seen!) then some will be poking through the top of your SLC at 3.5mm, also keeping in if you have used a heating mat that adds another 1mm. So now your playing with 0.5mm of SLC over the wires. Now unless you're some sort of SLCing God, it's never gonna happen!

I'd allow for minimum of 5mm SLC and even then I'd like a spare bag as back up.

thanks for for the advice. I've got another bag to give 5mm SLC

 

[champ222]

thanks for all the advice guys.

with regards to the tile choice, i like the 7 quid b&q tiles fine, double poo you say? why is this? Are they defective?

I did look at other tiles, i saw some nice ones, and many nasty ones, but the cost was huge. yes i am spending quite a bit what with the ufh, the boards and the levelling etc, but these costs would be the same whatever the tile choice surely?

I do partly agree with "you get what you pay for", but in all parts of life, its always possible to spend an awful lot of money on rubbish. Just because its expensive, could just mean that someone is making lots of profit.

In addition, if i was spending £45 a square meter on tiles, i probably wouldnt have a go at it myself. so the costs would increase further.

I put the marmox boards down today, i first primed with mapei eco prim grip, which seemed a good choice to go over the black adhesive residue.

The first batch of adhesive i mixed up turned out a bit too runny, so was hard to work with. the second batch was much better, but i seemed to be spending more time mixing than anything else, so i mixed up a whole bag to finish off the boards. i did waste a bit doing this though.

question... if i mix up a bucket of adhesive, when i need more can i just add more water and adhesive then mix? or should i clean the bucket first?

It all went fairly well, except i made a fair amount of mess. Due to the rough surface of the marmox, any adhesive spillage cant be fixed, but i assume if i get any whilst tiling i can wash this off with a damp sponge?

so tomorrow i am laying the UFH mat then going for it with the ultraplan slc. i originally planned on 2 bags (the room is just under 9 m2), but reading here, it looks like i'll need 3 at least?

I have 4 bags of the stuff sat here, so thats all good. although i'll need to simultaneously mix 3 (or 4) buckets of slc... unless i can put 2 bags and double the water in the one bucket? Onced mixed, how long have i got before i need to pour it?

I got some latex SBR primer with the underfloor heating kit that i didnt use (as i used the eco prim grip) should i use this on top of the boards? or go again with the Mapei prim grip?

Cheers guys

 

[champ222]

Just looked at the floor primer bottle and it says it should be applied 12 hours prior to the heat mat being installed.

This isnt going to work for me and i need to get the floor levelled tomorrow too... should i use the prim grip instead?

Thanks

 

[Andy Allen]

thanks for all the advice guys.

with regards to the tile choice, i like the 7 quid b&q tiles fine, double poo you say? why is this? Are they defective?

I did look at other tiles, i saw some nice ones, and many nasty ones, but the cost was huge. yes i am spending quite a bit what with the ufh, the boards and the levelling etc, but these costs would be the same whatever the tile choice surely?

I do partly agree with "you get what you pay for", but in all parts of life, its always possible to spend an awful lot of money on rubbish. Just because its expensive, could just mean that someone is making lots of profit.

In addition, if i was spending £45 a square meter on tiles, i probably wouldnt have a go at it myself. so the costs would increase further.

I put the marmox boards down today, i first primed with mapei eco prim grip, which seemed a good choice to go over the black adhesive residue.

The first batch of adhesive i mixed up turned out a bit too runny, so was hard to work with. the second batch was much better, but i seemed to be spending more time mixing than anything else, so i mixed up a whole bag to finish off the boards. i did waste a bit doing this though.

question... if i mix up a bucket of adhesive, when i need more can i just add more water and adhesive then mix? or should i clean the bucket first?

It all went fairly well, except i made a fair amount of mess. Due to the rough surface of the marmox, any adhesive spillage cant be fixed, but i assume if i get any whilst tiling i can wash this off with a damp sponge?

so tomorrow i am laying the UFH mat then going for it with the ultraplan slc. i originally planned on 2 bags (the room is just under 9 m2), but reading here, it looks like i'll need 3 at least?

I have 4 bags of the stuff sat here, so thats all good. although i'll need to simultaneously mix 3 (or 4) buckets of slc... unless i can put 2 bags and double the water in the one bucket? Onced mixed, how long have i got before i need to pour it?

I got some latex SBR primer with the underfloor heating kit that i didnt use (as i used the eco prim grip) should i use this on top of the boards? or go again with the Mapei prim grip?

Cheers guys

most tillers on this forum hate fixing the B & Q cheap tiles, there sizes are all over the place, and there very poor quality, nothing worse than fixing a floor knowing it wont last as long as a decent porcelain tile......but its your choice and I hope it works well for you..

 

[Chalker]

Gorilla buckets are great for mixing slc.

 

[Martyn Leeds]

There's lots of information on how to do each of the stages of the job that you're doing.
Lots of products, lots of tools, lots of advice from tech people, and on here obviously. You can check and double check...

But tiling isn't as easy as it looks. As it sounds like you are experiencing.

Good luck with the diy project and hope it turns out successful.

 

[dantheram]

Question about the perimeter - obviously I'm leaving a gap (5mm) where a insulation board meets a wall so do I maintain this gap when I pour SLC? So erect a dam around the entire SLC area or leave it to fill the wall gap? I'm 99% certain this is a stupid question but just checking.

 

[dantheram]

How's this job coming on?

Mine is complete now - posted a few pics on the thread.