Floor prep..

[J Sid]

Rich, I hadn't read your post #12 as it was posted when I was formulating my post #13 which was in response Stocks Tiles post #11 and his comments about a verbal agreement being no good if it goes wrong, implying a written one would be ok.
I did not question your professionalism, I stated what I believe to be correct.
I stated that as professional tradesmen you have a responsibility to do a job the correct way in the eyes of the material manufacturers, governing body and BS
I believe that if a solution to a problem didn't work and there was a recommended way to do it that would have worked, a law court would not take into account a letter from the customer stating to do it the wrong way would stand up.

I loss many jobs each week when 'tilers' claim its fine to tile wet area's on plaster board, untanked, to put large format tiles on plastered plasterboard, tile directly on chipboard floors, to do away with expansion joints, this list goes on. If I have to sit at home because of it, so be it. Yes, I have a family and a mortgage and I would rather be working.

 

[Stocks Tiles]

I didn't say it's ok, I said get it in writing as verbal doesn't exist. Yes standards need to be met but how many customers want what they can't have without paying for all the extra work? At least with a written agreement you have SOME defence if done the work. I wouldn't carry out the work as first stated but it's not for me to say don't do it. I guarantee all my work and this is something I couldn't unless good money is paid to do right (edit: to avoid the expansion joint) and I quote for any works that needs doing regardless of a customer requesting or not, I explain everything in detail and if I don't get it then I don't get it. Hope that helps explains what I was getting at... If not never mind!

 

[J Sid]

Here's a question, if a floor like this was done without an expansion joint, how long would you expect it to be before a crack appeared of one was going to? A week, a year, after any UFH had been turned on?

This job has no ufh, anyway none mentioned.
To many variables to answer.
Ceramic, porcelain or stone?
How much movement / bounce in wooden floor?
How new is the concrete?
Is it a new build?

I've seen floors tiled onto ply with the correct adhesive, apparently, and the tiles have crack along every joint within months,

I've seen job tiled over two different substrates as this post last years.

I'm sure you're seen the same Bri

 

[J Sid]

Stocks

"but its not for me to say don't do it"

If a forum member / member of the public comes on this or any other trade forum and asks a question on a fixing method they propose to use and it is quite clearly no a recognised method to get over said problem, why would you not say anything?
I maybe wrong, and many say I often am, but I thought one or the objectives of these types of forums was to past on knowledge you have and ask for help or advice when you need it.

 

[Stocks Tiles]

You had already given the advice that's why I said further to the comments above, I didn't correct you are imply you are wrong - you are not and my personal opinion is you seem to know your stuff nothing I have seen over the forum or on another page that I would argue with. Don't know why you're trying to pick a argument though, I only advised getting any agreements in writing I had nothing to add to what you advised.

 

[J Sid]

Unlike some I have no intension of picking an argument.
If I misread your post or misunderstood it, which can easily be done, I apologise.
The way I read it was, you were suggesting that getting it in writing, (an unrecommended fixing method) rather than verbally, you would have 'Some defense' if or when it goes wrong.
I take it that is not what you mean.

 

[Ian]

This job has no ufh, anyway none mentioned.
To many variables to answer.
Ceramic, porcelain or stone?
How much movement / bounce in wooden floor?
How new is the concrete?
Is it a new build?

I've seen floors tiled onto ply with the correct adhesive, apparently, and the tiles have crack along every joint within months,

I've seen job tiled over two different substrates as this post last years.

I'm sure you're seen the same Bri

Yeah absolutely, it's a tricky one to call. A bit like tossing a coin, it might last 20 years or it could last 20 days. My personal thought is, if it is over prepped ie, 22mm ply to the joists (with extra noggins), cement board over that with an overlap onto concrete side, slc concrete then ditra over the lot, it stands a fair old chance of surviving I feel.

 

[J Sid]

Agree, it would more than likely no fail, but at what cost.
Say, 15 m2 of ply + 11m2 of self leveling at 15mm to 18mm thick + 26 m2 of uncoupling membrane.
So what, about £800 to £1000 extra labour and materials to not have any expansion joint.

 

[Rich Midge]

Just to clarify my position on this.
I always recommend expansion strips.
If the customer is absolutely adamant they don't want them, I offer the prep discussed as an alternative option. Cost implications etc are always outlined in my estimate.
I cannot guarantee that at some point the floor may fail. This is nothing to do with my workmanship but because this isn't a recognised fixing method the adhesive suppliers etc wouldn't cover it. Again, this is all clearly written in my estimate.
If a customer doesn't want expansion strips and doesn't want to, or can't pay the alternative, I regrettably walk away.
I've yet to have a failure hence why I'm happy to share on here. Anyway, time for another beer in the Spanish sun! Adios amigos!