Floor Tile Problem (tile On Tile?)

[olly330]

Long story, but the some of the floor tiles that have been laid are from a different batch, this was a mistake from the supplier (big national company) as they should ensure all tiles are from the same batch.

The supplier has accepted they messed up mixing the batch of floor tiles and will be sending out a whole new batch of floor tiles as well as adhesive as they cannot track down any tiles from the same batch.

The supplier recommended laying the new tiles ontop of the ones that have just gone down, does this sound ok?

The tiles that have just been laid were on a no more ply substrate that was well screwed down, so I know I will have a height issue (6mm no more ply + 8mm tiles + 8mm tiles ). Would this height stand out too much?

Also, I don’t like the look of floor tiles that butt up to wall tiles but don’t want the last row of wall tiles to be ripped out as that could cause further damage up the wall tiles.
Should a gap of around 3mm be left around the edges of the floor which would be filled with grout or clear silicone? Or should the tiles floor tiles be run tight to the wall tiles and a clear silicone used?

Or what other way would be best to deal with this, are some sort of edging trim for floor/wall available?

Thanks for the help

 

[Bill]

those tiles are a disgrace to the tiling industry. Misshaped beyond belief.

The only problem of over tiling is height.

Black grout?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Your not having much luck olly!

 

[olly330]

Thanks for the replies, the tiling was finished last friday. Just hoping its an easy fix if possible by laying tiles over tiles.

 

[hmtiling]

your tiler needs glasses, contacts or spacers!

 

[hmtiling]

and introducing to latex/slc

 

[peteablard]

How did he not notice the different batches, they look like 2 different tiles!!

 

[Flintstone]

How did he not notice the different batches, they look like 2 different tiles!!

He probably thought sod it!

 

[Dan]

It's mainly down to the tiler to check the batches and ensure they're all matching, and even then, still work from several boxes at one time (so mix a few boxes up and work from that pile so they're mixed). So well done for getting the shop to take responsibility.

You can lay the tiles over the tiles as long as they've been fixed well using the correct stuff.

Perhaps try and pull one up in the middle and make sure they have 100% coverage.

You can also try tapping them in various places using a pound coin. You will be able to tell where there are voids as the note changes to a high note. If you tap the coin on something solid first like the bricks to your house etc you'll hear a dull sound, that's what the tiles should sound like EVERYWHERE when on floors.

 

[Dan]

How did he not notice the different batches, they look like 2 different tiles!!

I'm guessing he did spot it, and thought 'they'll do for behind the loo and the cuts near the door'.

 

[olly330]

It's mainly down to the tiler to check the batches and ensure they're all matching, and even then, still work from several boxes at one time (so mix a few boxes up and work from that pile so they're mixed). So well done for getting the shop to take responsibility.

You can lay the tiles over the tiles as long as they've been fixed well using the correct stuff.

Perhaps try and pull one up in the middle and make sure they have 100% coverage.

You can also try tapping them in various places using a pound coin. You will be able to tell where there are voids as the note changes to a high note. If you tap the coin on something solid first like the bricks to your house etc you'll hear a dull sound, that's what the tiles should sound like EVERYWHERE when on floors.

Thanks, very helpful, will check tomorrow with tapping to see they are held in well.

What's the best solution for where they meet the wall tile, should there be a gap and if so should it be filled with grout or clear/black silicone?

Do you think the height will be too much?

 

[Flintstone]

Either butted up or a small 2mm gap, whatever, best siliconed, neatly!

 

[John Benton]

Long story, but the some of the floor tiles that have been laid are from a different batch, this was a mistake from the supplier (big national company) as they should ensure all tiles are from the same batch.

The supplier has accepted they messed up mixing the batch of floor tiles and will be sending out a whole new batch of floor tiles as well as adhesive as they cannot track down any tiles from the same batch.

The supplier recommended laying the new tiles ontop of the ones that have just gone down, does this sound ok?

The tiles that have just been laid were on a no more ply substrate that was well screwed down, so I know I will have a height issue (6mm no more ply + 8mm tiles + 8mm tiles ). Would this height stand out too much?

Also, I don’t like the look of floor tiles that butt up to wall tiles but don’t want the last row of wall tiles to be ripped out as that could cause further damage up the wall tiles.
Should a gap of around 3mm be left around the edges of the floor which would be filled with grout or clear silicone? Or should the tiles floor tiles be run tight to the wall tiles and a clear silicone used?

Or what other way would be best to deal with this, are some sort of edging trim for floor/wall available?



Thanks for the help

No problem putting the floor tile to the wall tile, just leave a 2mm joint around the edge. I would use black silicon to finish off with

 

[Dan]

Thanks, very helpful, will check tomorrow with tapping to see they are held in well.

What's the best solution for where they meet the wall tile, should there be a gap and if so should it be filled with grout or clear/black silicone?

Do you think the height will be too much?

The height is usually only a problem if it's a problem for you. You can use a door strip where it meets the other floor. There would be a tiny ramp, nothing drastic. Check the loo will still fit the stack pipe, pipes to the basin will still fit etc, should be fine. And cheap to correct if not.

The main thing I'd be worried about is whether they've been fixed well. I don't think the tiler was a good one by the looks of it.

The method for where tiles meet each other on any internal corner (be it floor to wall, or wall to wall) is to silicone over the gap made by tiling up to each other, but not as to rest one tile on another. And this allows movement in both directions.

Here is an incredibly technical drawing I've just done for you. Neither tile touches the other. Silicone covers the gab. Both tiles could theoretically move into the gab, should expansion and retraction require it.



Silicone would usually match the tiles. I'd never use clear. You'll see the gab through it.

 

[olly330]

The height is usually only a problem if it's a problem for you. You can use a door strip where it meets the other floor. There would be a tiny ramp, nothing drastic. Check the loo will still fit the stack pipe, pipes to the basin will still fit etc, should be fine. And cheap to correct if not.

The main thing I'd be worried about is whether they've been fixed well. I don't think the tiler was a good one by the looks of it.

The method for where tiles meet each other on any internal corner (be it floor to wall, or wall to wall) is to silicone over the gap made by tiling up to each other, but not as to rest one tile on another. And this allows movement in both directions.

Here is an incredibly technical drawing I've just done for you. Neither tile touches the other. Silicone covers the gab. Both tiles could theoretically move into the gab, should expansion and retraction require it.

View attachment 82190

Silicone would usually match the tiles. I'd never use clear. You'll see the gab through it.

Thanks, that's a brilliant post and really helps me out, will speak to the next tiler about this before he starts.

Just a quick one about the bath panel, would the joiner be able to trim this as with the tile on tile it won't fit any more, and if so should it be trimmed from top of bottom? Maybe I should ask this on a joinery forum!


I actually always thought the wall tile should rest over the floor tile but your explanation makes a lot of sense.

You lads make it sound so easy, wouldn't it be great if tradesman actually were as good as you lot.

Anyone have any good tips on siliconing, I have heard spraying window cleaner canisters that contain alcohol over the silicone makes it much easier to work with... I havd got some of those shaping tools too but always find you have to apply tons of silicone then wipe loads away and it's a bit messy.

 

[Old Mod]

You lads make it sound so easy, wouldn't it be great if tradesman actually were as good as you lot..

Well we are! That's why u ignore our advice at your peril!
We did try to warn u!
And as far as the silicone work is concerned, if your plumber/tiler are not competent enough it can ruin a job.
I always feel getting a Proffesional silicone guy in is well worth the money.
It's what they do, and it should be perfect.
It will lift the whole job up a notch,and let's be fair.................. It's not as if it doesn't need it.

 

[John Benton]

Well we are! That's why u ignore our advice at your peril!
We did try to warn u!
And as far as the silicone work is concerned, if your plumber/tiler are not competent enough it can ruin a job.
I always feel getting a Proffesional silicone guy in is well worth the money.
It's what they do, and it should be perfect.
It will lift the whole job up a notch,and let's be fair.................. It's not as if it doesn't need it.

Spot on Marc, the siliconing makes or breaks it, and as you say this job is in need of a decent finish!! Don't scrimp on getting a top notch finish Olly

 

[Dan]

Thanks, that's a brilliant post and really helps me out, will speak to the next tiler about this before he starts.

Just a quick one about the bath panel, would the joiner be able to trim this as with the tile on tile it won't fit any more, and if so should it be trimmed from top of bottom? Maybe I should ask this on a joinery forum!


I actually always thought the wall tile should rest over the floor tile but your explanation makes a lot of sense.

You lads make it sound so easy, wouldn't it be great if tradesman actually were as good as you lot.

Anyone have any good tips on siliconing, I have heard spraying window cleaner canisters that contain alcohol over the silicone makes it much easier to work with... I havd got some of those shaping tools too but always find you have to apply tons of silicone then wipe loads away and it's a bit messy.

I'm pretty good and silicone because my family run window fitting firms and I've always seen their ways etc

But when I'd show somebody I'd always tell them to use masking tape on both surfaces leaving just a couple of mm for the silicone to stick to. Then run a thin bead of silicone down. Smooth it off with a wet finger (don't lick your finger, use a cup of water, silicone is cancerous), and then before it gets a skin developing from drying pull the masking off carefully. Leaving and perfect straight line.

Practise on some plasterboard or something first.

 

[Dan]

As for the joiner cutting the bath panel, it depends if he's don't it before.

 

[Dan s]

If the bath panels laminated I would personally cut from the top as the water ingress would be far less than the bottom. And I always use some universal spray sealer & an adhesive/iron on edging strip on the cur edge even if you can't see it because when exposed to moisture a panel won't last long at all. And a final bead of silicone all around to finish.

 

[SJPurdy]

Here is an incredibly technical drawing I've just done for you. Neither tile touches the other. Silicone covers the gab. Both tiles could theoretically move into the gab, should expansion and retraction require it.

View attachment 82190

Silicone would usually match the tiles. I'd never use clear. You'll see the gab through it.

I would lay the floor tiles up to the walls leaving and expansion gap to the walls (which I would seal in critical (wet) areas.
I would then fix the wall tiles but leave an expansion gap at the bottom between them and the floor tiles, which would then be filled with an appropriate colour silicone sealant.
This also allows for movement/expansion/contraction in both the walls and floor.
When we say joints filled with sealant it should be noted that the sealant should only bond to the tile edges and not he bottom/back of the joint. In critical movement likely applications or deep joints a bond breaker tape or joint filler will be required. That said I think in most domestic applications the joint will just be filled with sealant!

 

[Brian Holz]

Thanks for the replies, the tiling was finished last friday. Just hoping its an easy fix if possible by laying tiles over tiles.

As long as you use an acrylic additive in your Thinset morter to lay the new tiles over the old (well, other new tiles) you should be fine.
Use black silicone of you can find it, leaving a 3mm gap between the wall tile. This should be siliconed.
I'd you can't find black silicone, 100% pure, then grout out the 3mm space with the black grout, but then you MUST use a 3mm bead of clear silicone that will cover the 3 mm grout on the floor AND 3mm up the wall tile.
I know this for a fact. I have done it many times for the past 20 years, and have seen, recently, a few that are still holding up.
I hope this helps you. If you have any more questions, please message me!

 

[olly330]

Thanks everyone, quality replies that speak volumes for your qualify of work.

 

[magga]

Mapei Mapesil AC you can get in black

 

[SJPurdy]

I'd you can't find black silicone, 100% pure, then grout out the 3mm space with the black grout, but then you MUST use a 3mm bead of clear silicone that will cover the 3 mm grout on the floor AND 3mm up the wall tile.
I know this for a fact. I have done it many times for the past 20 years, and have seen, recently, a few that are still holding up.

I know other tillers still do this "fill joint with coloured grout and then clear silicone over". I did it myself 20+ years ago when getting coloured silicone wasn't so easy, but it is wrong in my opinion.
The joint is left and filled with a flexible sealant (over filler/bond breaker as necessary) which then allows the joint to be compressed or stretched due to movement from many sources. Filling the joint with grout first means that the joint can't be compressed and any movement (eg temperature caused expansion of the floor tiling) will then put additional stresses on the floor and/or wall tiles.
Most good tile grout suppliers now stock coloured silicones to coordinate with their grout range. For me it was sometimes more convenient to pick up a tube or two of Mapie silicone from Screwfix as it is closer than other outlets (at times it was even cheaper!).