Floor tiling advice please!

[pablo79]

Hi all. My first post here so be kind!

I'm looking to tile my kitchen diner and rear porch in the same tiles. The floor is solid... under food it feels like concrete and is as sold as a rock with no movement, but upon lifting the carpet it looks like there's chipboard or another type of board.

My question is, can I tile directly onto this? The porch is already tiled in fact, and, considering its height, doesn't seem to have anything underneath it like plywood. It's been down for 13 years and as no cracks in tile or grout, so the floor is solid.

Also, what type of adhesive would I need?

Many thanks,
pablo

 

[Ceramico tiling]

Personally I would take it all back to the concrete and then lay a decoupling membrane like Ditra. You cant go onto chipboard no matter what.

 

[pablo79]

Personally I would take it all back to the concrete and then lay a decoupling membrane like Ditra. You cant go onto chipboard no matter what.

Many thanks for your reply.

is that correct? The porch in my house seems to show otherwise. Perhaps there's ad adhesive that can do this, or there's a membrane of sorts?

 

[bugs183]

Yep he's correct!!
Chip board is terrible to fix too, it's too unstable and if it gets wet it disintergrates, i've just had to get a carpenter to totally rebuild a floor in Putney as bad fixing onto chipboard had resulted in the floor totally failing.
Ditra is a membrane and is brilliant but again it's the chipboard that is the problem.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

:welcome: You may find the porch is tiled directly onto the concrete and the chipboard / weyroc is a floating floor! Until you find out the construction of the substrate any further advice is Subjective!

 

[AMtek]

It may be down to the size of the porch, a small area won't deflect as much a large area. Sounds like you want someone to tell you that it will be fine to tile onto but unfortunately it won't, most people on this forum tile day in, day out, we really do know what we're talking about

 

[Brian the Tile]

get a tiler in ,we do the job every day (well most days) when busy and like to think we know what we are talking about,save yourself a lot of potential problems

 

[pablo79]

Many thanks for the information guys. This is all very helpful!

So, I would be able to tile this area if this ditra membrane was applied first? That sounds like a straightforward solution.

I'm keen to do the project myself, but I want to make sure I don't mess it up so everyone's advice here is invaluable. Thank you!

 

[Rookery]

Many thanks for the information guys. This is all very helpful!

So, I would be able to tile this area if this ditra membrane was applied first? That sounds like a straightforward solution.

I'm keen to do the project myself, but I want to make sure I don't mess it up so everyone's advice here is invaluable. Thank you!

Ditra or other uncoupling membranes will not prevent cracks & failures in a poorly prepared floor. You need to determine the floor construction and then come back to us for further guidance.

 

[pablo79]

I've had a chat with my neighbour who has lived here since these buildings were converted. There is a void under the building. The floors are apparently suspended concrete slabs with the boards on top. They look like weyroc more than chipboard.

 

[Rookery]

Sounds like bison block & beam floor type with insulation plus chipboard on top. So a floating floor then.

 

[pablo79]

Sounds like bison block & beam floor type with insulation plus chipboard on top. So a floating floor then.

Thanks for that. What does this mean for me? Can I simply apply a membrane like Ditra and then tile on to that, or will I need to put some ply or backer board down. I really don't want to increase the height by much!

Thanks again for all the info guys.

 

[pablo79]

Quick update: I've done a deflection test. I put a full to the brim glass of water on the floor and jumped around it, and no water came out. Little to no movement at all, so there's no vertical deflection.

Of course, it's still a suspended floor.

Question for the experts: does this mean I just need to use a membrane like ditra before laying the tiles?

 

[Martyn Leeds]

There's been a few floating floor threads in the past, no doubt you've read a few of them - the advice is always along the lines of 'Don't tile it, 'cos its a floating floor'.

Because a Pro would be responsible for the prep, installation and the guarantee that it will last - so obviously its too risky, so 99% of folk give it a swerve. I wouldn't do a floater knowing that I might get a call in a few months time that will cost me more than I got paid for the job.

I doubt you're gonna get a definate answer, but, on this one, its your floor, your penny's, you're doing it, so its your decision?
You previously had it tiled - so you've already been convinced its safe.
You don't want to add height with anymore board
And I think you seem pretty sold on the Ditra idea...

 

[pablo79]

There's been a few floating floor threads in the past, no doubt you've read a few of them - the advice is always along the lines of 'Don't tile it, 'cos its a floating floor'.

Because a Pro would be responsible for the prep, installation and the guarantee that it will last - so obviously its too risky, so 99% of folk give it a swerve. I wouldn't do a floater knowing that I might get a call in a few months time that will cost me more than I got paid for the job.

I doubt you're gonna get a definate answer, but, on this one, its your floor, your penny's, you're doing it, so its your decision?
You previously had it tiled - so you've already been convinced its safe.
You don't want to add height with anymore board
And I think you seem pretty sold on the Ditra idea...

Thanks for the reply!

I'm certainly not sold. If the general consensus is that it's not possible then I won't do it. I guess I just want to understand the reasons for why it's not possible so I'm as best informed as I can be.

I've actually been looking into some slate-effect vinyl tiles. It would make the job a whole world easier, and some of the high-quality tiles look almost as good as the real thing. I don't mind spending a reasonable amount per sq/m to get the right effect. It'll be warmer under foot too.

So, not sold by any means. Just wanting to understand what options I have before taking the plunge in the next couple of weeks

 

[pablo79]

Update!

Right, I've just lifted the carpet again to have another look. The board on the ground is not chipboard, nor is it ply, or wood of any kind. I just had a dig at it to see if I can work out what it is...

It's incredibly dense (hence the solidness of the floor). It I dig at it it seems to have a cement or plaster like quality. I can dig a grove into it with a bit of force and a screwdriver. It's a browny colour. It's definitely not wood!

i think before anything else I need to establish exactly what this is. Any ideas anyone?

 

[White Room]

Any pics...

 

[bugs183]

How old is the building, it sounds like an Anhydrite screed.