granfix self--priming addy

[diamondtiling]

How many would you be taking off Dan, they usually pop off with Granfix self primer anyway, you can soak the tiles overnight and scrape the adhesive off, hopefully tou will be ok. Try one of the first ones you fixed and let us know how it went.
Better to do it right now than to risk a major problem later.
Use a powered grout as well, far superior, mix what you can comfortably use and take your time to fill the joints. Have a bucket and sponge ready (unless you have a washboy) to clean off any excess from the face of the tile. Any more questions just keep asking

 

[danj1974]

<time passes whilst Dan prises a couple of tiles off the wall and then has a bit of a cry...>

Right. It's not looking good.
I started this job on Friday, taking my time and getting my starting baton fixed nice and level. Since then I've put up just under 30 tiles/part tiles (I told you a worked slow!). In my defence I've been working around a window and have had to cut a couple of L-shapes at the top corners.

I started with one half tile at the edge of the wall (fitted on Saturday morning so approx 30hrs) and that popped straight off in my hands. To be fair though, it didn't look like I'd made particularly good contact, the trowelled lines of adhesive weren't very squashed. Tellingly the adhesive comes off the plaster very cleanly So I tried a full tile at the other end of the row which I'd done on Friday afternoon (>48hrs). This took a bit more persuasion, I had to work in a scraper to be able to get my fingers around the edge, but it did pull off - albeit quite suddenly (nearly propelling myself into a bucket of water!)
Again, the adhesive came off the plaster very cleanly indeed, >75% of it stuck to the tile, and it had the consistency of plasticine in places, a bit wetter in the middle. This one was a tile that I'd used more adhesive than recommended (5mm bed instead of 3mm) because it was over a slight depression in the wall. So arguably I've not been following the manufacturers recommendations here, but arguably this Granfix Multifix stuff is rather cack.

Joking aside, I'm a lot more serene than I thought I'd be at this point, but the prospect of prising off and scraping the adhesive off all these tiles is still pretty depressing. Looks like I need to scour this forum for some recommendations for better products.

I'd insert an amusing smiley at this point, but they all seem so inadequate.... I'm going to get a beer instead.

Dan

 

[diamondtiling]

The adhesive is not grabbing the tile because you are fitting porcelain, you really need a powdered version, if it was me I would remove all the tiles and start afresh, they will clean up. Some people have laid whole floors with the wrong adhesive and had to lift them all up. You have weight issues to address with your plastered finish on one wall, how heavy are your tiles?
You dont want to hear this I know but why not remove the plasterboard and fit aqua panels, they take more weight and are a much better and safer surface for your situation.
Leave it today, have some beers and start again tomorrow.



The emoticons you are after are these ones I think.

 

[danj1974]

Is there a 'la-la-la, I'm not listening' emoticon?

I think I will take them all off the wall, but I can't fix aquapanel on that side of the shower cubicle because I can't afford to lose the space required to batten it out. It would also be out of step with the rest of the wall then.

Good question about the weight, I've just weighed a pack (1.1m2) and that was 20.5kg - so just the limit of a plastered wall, if I understand correctly.

One thing I would say is that the adhesive seems to be sticking to the tile an awful lot better than the wall, it certainly comes off the wall very cleanly. I need to scrape and the scrub it off the tile, but then it is wetting at the back tile surace (understandably as it's non-porous).

My current thoughts (3 beers in):

1) Take the tiles off the wall. If they're not stuck properly after 2 days then that's just not good enough. I don't think the tiles wil fall off, but I am going to be fixing a loo and sink against this wall, so the surface needs to be sound.

2) Go and have words with the supplier. If they're not prepared to give a refund on all the adhesive (used and unused) then I'm not spending a penny more with them. Hopefully they will be able to recommend a powdered version.

3) Choose a tanking option for the shower cubicle.

Do you, or anyone else, have any recommendations for the powdered adhesive (slow-setting preferably) and/or a tanking system for plastered walls?

Ta very much for your help.

Dan

PS - Just noticed that you're in Cheshire. I'm in Macc, so if I get too fed up with this I might pop in for a chat - see if you fancy finishing the job!

 

[diamondtiling]

Use the tanking system on a roll. you can cut it to size and use adhesive to fix it plus you can tile immediately. Pay particular attention to the instructions, tape the corners and overlap by 150mm, there are many brands available, wetdecs one of the forum sponsors will be able to help you, look through the list of sponsors Dan and you will find them, plus you will get some discount from them just for being a member on the forum. Mapie do a slow setting adhesive although I cannot recall the name, not all Tilegiant shops have it in stock so ring first.

If you get fed up then call me and I will try and help you, if you get really fed up then Tiling it is not a problem.

 

[diamondtiling]

Another point I forgot to mention Dan, who told you 3mm adhesive for your walls?
Thats not enough, mosaics trowels are 2/3mm in depth, I would have at least a 6mm trowel depending on the surface of the walls.

 

[danj1974]

The 3mm bed depth is stipulated on the tub and on the technical sheet that Sir Ramic found:

"Apply adhesive to the wall using a 5mm notched wall trowel such
that a continuous bed of adhesive approx 2-3mm thick is achieved."

My trowel is a 5mm square notch one. The instructions on the tub go even further and state:

"MULTIFIX must NOT be used to fill out depressions on uneven wall surfaces."

Unfortunately I didn't notice that nugget of information until I started posting on here, otherwise I probably would have queried that with the supplier. The wall isn't that bad, but it's not perfectly straight and true.

Looks like it's set to be another frustrating day, the best that I can hope for is that by the end of the day I'll be at the same point as when I started on Friday with a bare wall, but this time with the correct materials to start the job.

Cheers for all your help.

Dan

 

[danj1974]

I've had a quick look at the Mapei website and Keraquick is the only bagged adhesive that I can find that specifically mentions Porcelain tiles, but it's rapid setting time puts me off. Would I really only have 15-20mins to work with each batch once mixed, or is that figure the time from when it's spread onto the wall (i.e. the bulk material in the pot lasts a bit longer)?
Are all cement-based bagged adhesives suitable for Procelain, or do I need one such as this which mentions porcelain?

I've also checked out the Wetdecs website, the Durabase system is the only only membrane system they offer £125 for the 5m2 kit. It's a bit pricey to do just one wall, but I suppose I could also add it on top of the aquapanel on the other two sides as well for a belt and braces approach - maybe just halfway up the wall, enough to cover the first horizontal join?

Dan

 

[Sean Page]

Keraquick is a great adhesive, I use it for most occasions. Mapeker has a slower setting time though if you're worried about open times.