Grey adhesive on natural Travertine tiles and grout applied before sea

[Jamrock]

Hello everyone.

My builder has just laid and grouted natural travertine tiles in my cloakroom and has told me that I need to seal them. When I bought the sealant I was chatting with the sales advisor and he said that the golden rules of laying travertine tiles are:-

• Apply sealant before grouting
• Use white adhesive.

I went back to look at the tiles I could see some dry grey coloured paste on the exposed part of tile by the door. I have guessed from this that grey adhesive was used. The grout was cream coloured (slightly lighter than the tiles).
My questions are:-

• How long is it likely to be before discolouration occurs (it is the downstairs toilet so will get minimal foot traffic)
• How bad is the discolouration likely to be (tiles are about 11mm thick, honed and filled, from Wickes)
• Should I reasonably have expected the builder to know not to use grey adhesive and not to apply grout until after the tile has been sealed (he has many years of experience, has very high ratings on check-a-trade and has the “Guild of Master Craftsmen” logo on his letters).

Thanks

 

[Gazzer]

When was the floor laid and does it look ok now. ???

 

[Jamrock]

The floor was laid 2 days ago and grouted yesterday. It looks fine right now.

 

[Gazzer]

Why isnt the builder sealing the floor...all part of the job.

 

[bugs183]

Hiya.
You need to find out what the builder has done and in what order.
Do you know if the builder sealed the tiles before he grouted? Maybe he did and now he wants you to seal the floor to keep it maintained. Burt this is me being positive.
If he hasn't sealed the floor at all then it needs to be cleaned and sealed NOW before it gets wrecked, and really it should be by him, he laid it, it's not been completed to a standard where it can be handed over to the client. If her laid the stone with grey adhesive he doesn't sound too on the ball with stone.
Whoever does it, get this sealed quickly, it would only take take a few muddy footprints or anything spilt on the surface and it will be ruined.

 

[Jamrock]

I don't really know to be honest. Possibly because we recently had a big argument over fees.

It's a long story but I didn't get the final quote from him until he was one week in to an "emergency" rennovation job following a leak. The final quote was thousands of pounds more then I was orignally expecting it to be based on previous conversations (almost double). We had a big argument (including a threat to walk out) and agreed to split the difference, just get the job done and forgotten about.

 

[Peter]

Dunno why people use grey adhesive near Ivory grout in the first place. Horrible combination.

 

[bugs183]

They don't know any better and want to save money as white adhesive costs more.

 

[Jamrock]

Thanks all

bugs - I think i'll have to assume that they weren't sealed before being laid.

I will definitely seal them right away to minimise the risk of any damage from the top. Should I clean them with a damp sponge to start with? What about using cleaning products?

I'd also quite like to get an idea of how "bad" the problem is, partly to set my mind at rest and partly so I know what kind of conversation I need to have with my builder on Monday!

• How long is it likely to be before discolouration occurs (it is the downstairs toilet so will get minimal foot traffic)
• How bad is the discolouration likely to be (tiles are about 11mm thick, honed and filled, from Wickes) - would it look significantly worse than natural ageing?

 

[bugs183]

You need to know what the builder has done, the trouble is you are now making yourself responcible for HIS work.
Without any photos we have no idea what the floor looks like, he may have left it spotlessly clean, or if he hadn't sealed it there's a good chance there will be grout residue on the face of the tiles.
If you start the sealing process and these tiles aren't clean you'll have a right job on your hands removing any adhesive or grout residue.
As i said before discoloration can happen immedietely, i let no one walk on my floors whilst they are unsealed, unless there are plenty of dust sheets to protect the floor.
Unless you agreed with the builder before hand that you were responcible for sealing the tiles then i'd stay off the floor altogether and get him to finish the job properly.
This is why profesional stone fixers are expensive, because stone fixing is slower because of all the sealing that HAS to be done properly.

 

[AliGage]

Builder, wickes, inflated price, check a trade..........Priceless!

Was it just the cloakroom floor you had him in to do?

 

[Jamrock]

Hi AliGage

It started with a wonky toilet! We found the cause of it to be a rotten cloakroom floor, caused by a leaking concealed cistern. The damage to the floor had spread in to the kitchen (adjoining), requiring half of the kitchen floor and the dividing wall to be replaced too. As we were replacing this lot we thought we might as well update the fixings in the cloakroom too!

The builder specialises in bathrooms, he had worked on my other bathroom before (including tiling) and had done a good job.

 

[AliGage]

Just out of interest what was the floor replaced with?

 

[Bubblecraft]

So many points to cause concern.

1) Check a Trade - Pay for the privilege to be on it & mark up your own feedback.
2) Guild of master craftsman - This is also something you pay for. It means absolutely nothing. There are no checks on how good you actually are. You pay to have the sticker.
3) If grey adhesive has been used & he hasn't sealed before grouting then he definitely has no experience in fixing stone. If he done a good job of your other bathroom, I take it that it was ceramic or porcelain. He should have sealed your floor as part of the price.
4) You mentioned the final "Quote" was nearly double than what you expected. Was it an estimate or a quote he gave you at the start of the job. An estimate lets him bump his price to what ever he likes. A quote does not hence why I NEVER give out estimates! Was no prices discussed with you during the fit as it seems strange how he can hit you with an invoice nearly double the price without your knowledge?

The grey adhesive can show through from 48 to 72 hours depending on the the adhesive used. After this time, any darkness that is visible through your tile will be there forever.

I just hope he hasn't dot & dabbed your tiles as this will clearly be visible is spot formats as well as the obvious problems. If laid correctly, it shouldn't be that noticeable as it will be evenly spread throughout.

 

[jonnyc]

dont lets get too carried away with condemning the floor yet.
i cannot defend the tiler if he says it is your responsibility to seal the tiles as this should be part of his job.he is the professional not you.
but in regard to beeing told that you must seal tiles before grouting this is not always the case .
with porous limestones you certainly should as they can stain and get picture framing but with honed and filled travertine you dont need to and it does not stain if washed off properly.
there is not a one rule for all stones and an experienced stonefixer will know which tiles he can grout without presealing after fixing.
travertine is definitely one and so too is the case with many marbles.
i use white adhesive on most stone tiles and marbles but there are many that you actually dont have to use white adhesive only on. again it is a one rule thing that suppliers use to cover every eventuality. if yoiu are experienced you will know what can be used on what.
the reason not to use grey normal set adhesive is sometimes that impurities can migrate through the stone. the other is that with translucent materials one should always use white so as not to change colour of marble.