Grey adhesive on natural Travertine tiles and grout applied before sea
J
Jamrock
Hi AliGage
It started with a wonky toilet! We found the cause of it to be a rotten cloakroom floor, caused by a leaking concealed cistern. The damage to the floor had spread in to the kitchen (adjoining), requiring half of the kitchen floor and the dividing wall to be replaced too. As we were replacing this lot we thought we might as well update the fixings in the cloakroom too!
The builder specialises in bathrooms, he had worked on my other bathroom before (including tiling) and had done a good job.
It started with a wonky toilet! We found the cause of it to be a rotten cloakroom floor, caused by a leaking concealed cistern. The damage to the floor had spread in to the kitchen (adjoining), requiring half of the kitchen floor and the dividing wall to be replaced too. As we were replacing this lot we thought we might as well update the fixings in the cloakroom too!
The builder specialises in bathrooms, he had worked on my other bathroom before (including tiling) and had done a good job.
B
Bubblecraft
So many points to cause concern.
1) Check a Trade - Pay for the privilege to be on it & mark up your own feedback.
2) Guild of master craftsman - This is also something you pay for. It means absolutely nothing. There are no checks on how good you actually are. You pay to have the sticker.
3) If grey adhesive has been used & he hasn't sealed before grouting then he definitely has no experience in fixing stone. If he done a good job of your other bathroom, I take it that it was ceramic or porcelain. He should have sealed your floor as part of the price.
4) You mentioned the final "Quote" was nearly double than what you expected. Was it an estimate or a quote he gave you at the start of the job. An estimate lets him bump his price to what ever he likes. A quote does not hence why I NEVER give out estimates! Was no prices discussed with you during the fit as it seems strange how he can hit you with an invoice nearly double the price without your knowledge?
The grey adhesive can show through from 48 to 72 hours depending on the the adhesive used. After this time, any darkness that is visible through your tile will be there forever.
I just hope he hasn't dot & dabbed your tiles as this will clearly be visible is spot formats as well as the obvious problems. If laid correctly, it shouldn't be that noticeable as it will be evenly spread throughout.
1) Check a Trade - Pay for the privilege to be on it & mark up your own feedback.
2) Guild of master craftsman - This is also something you pay for. It means absolutely nothing. There are no checks on how good you actually are. You pay to have the sticker.
3) If grey adhesive has been used & he hasn't sealed before grouting then he definitely has no experience in fixing stone. If he done a good job of your other bathroom, I take it that it was ceramic or porcelain. He should have sealed your floor as part of the price.
4) You mentioned the final "Quote" was nearly double than what you expected. Was it an estimate or a quote he gave you at the start of the job. An estimate lets him bump his price to what ever he likes. A quote does not hence why I NEVER give out estimates! Was no prices discussed with you during the fit as it seems strange how he can hit you with an invoice nearly double the price without your knowledge?
The grey adhesive can show through from 48 to 72 hours depending on the the adhesive used. After this time, any darkness that is visible through your tile will be there forever.
I just hope he hasn't dot & dabbed your tiles as this will clearly be visible is spot formats as well as the obvious problems. If laid correctly, it shouldn't be that noticeable as it will be evenly spread throughout.
J
jonnyc
dont lets get too carried away with condemning the floor yet.
i cannot defend the tiler if he says it is your responsibility to seal the tiles as this should be part of his job.he is the professional not you.
but in regard to beeing told that you must seal tiles before grouting this is not always the case .
with porous limestones you certainly should as they can stain and get picture framing but with honed and filled travertine you dont need to and it does not stain if washed off properly.
there is not a one rule for all stones and an experienced stonefixer will know which tiles he can grout without presealing after fixing.
travertine is definitely one and so too is the case with many marbles.
i use white adhesive on most stone tiles and marbles but there are many that you actually dont have to use white adhesive only on. again it is a one rule thing that suppliers use to cover every eventuality. if yoiu are experienced you will know what can be used on what.
the reason not to use grey normal set adhesive is sometimes that impurities can migrate through the stone. the other is that with translucent materials one should always use white so as not to change colour of marble.
i cannot defend the tiler if he says it is your responsibility to seal the tiles as this should be part of his job.he is the professional not you.
but in regard to beeing told that you must seal tiles before grouting this is not always the case .
with porous limestones you certainly should as they can stain and get picture framing but with honed and filled travertine you dont need to and it does not stain if washed off properly.
there is not a one rule for all stones and an experienced stonefixer will know which tiles he can grout without presealing after fixing.
travertine is definitely one and so too is the case with many marbles.
i use white adhesive on most stone tiles and marbles but there are many that you actually dont have to use white adhesive only on. again it is a one rule thing that suppliers use to cover every eventuality. if yoiu are experienced you will know what can be used on what.
the reason not to use grey normal set adhesive is sometimes that impurities can migrate through the stone. the other is that with translucent materials one should always use white so as not to change colour of marble.
J
Jamrock
Thanks again everyone
AliGage - the floor was replaced with some kind of chipboard / plasterboard material, not sure what.
JonnyC - Thanks for all of the helpful info, hopefully this is the case and he's followed this approach because he's had a lot of experience with stonework (rather than none)!
Bubblecraft -
- Other bathroom: Yes it was ceramic tiles
- Quote / Estimate: It's a little complicated. He was round my house when the insurance company did an assessment. The settlement offered was unusually generous, taking in to account just about everything which could possibly need to be replaced. I asked my builder how he thought this would compare to his price for doing the work and he said he didn't think it would be too much more. Lo-and-behold, it turned out to be double!
- Fixing method: I'll check whether he's dotted and dabbed. Hopefully not. It's been 48 hours since they were laid, I should be able to see by tomorrow if any stains show through. If there is no sign of staining after 72 hours am I "in the clear" or are stains likely to rise up over the years?
AliGage - the floor was replaced with some kind of chipboard / plasterboard material, not sure what.
JonnyC - Thanks for all of the helpful info, hopefully this is the case and he's followed this approach because he's had a lot of experience with stonework (rather than none)!
Bubblecraft -
- Other bathroom: Yes it was ceramic tiles
- Quote / Estimate: It's a little complicated. He was round my house when the insurance company did an assessment. The settlement offered was unusually generous, taking in to account just about everything which could possibly need to be replaced. I asked my builder how he thought this would compare to his price for doing the work and he said he didn't think it would be too much more. Lo-and-behold, it turned out to be double!
- Fixing method: I'll check whether he's dotted and dabbed. Hopefully not. It's been 48 hours since they were laid, I should be able to see by tomorrow if any stains show through. If there is no sign of staining after 72 hours am I "in the clear" or are stains likely to rise up over the years?
Morning Jamrock,
Can you confirm with the "builder" what he replaced the floor with. I would hope it's not plasterboard but nothing surprises me these days. But, chipboard wouldn't really be suitable either. Especially with such a naturally weak tile as travertine is. Even if the adhesive was white, it was all sealled and correct it's not going to last 5 minutes if direct onto chipboard. Something which is equally a weak product.
Can you confirm with the "builder" what he replaced the floor with. I would hope it's not plasterboard but nothing surprises me these days. But, chipboard wouldn't really be suitable either. Especially with such a naturally weak tile as travertine is. Even if the adhesive was white, it was all sealled and correct it's not going to last 5 minutes if direct onto chipboard. Something which is equally a weak product.
T
The D
Hi Jamrock I was taught to seal all stone even before it was laid but I think this was a belt and braces approach to compensate for the different levels of knowledge that each fixer had within the firm.
After realising that other tilers around the country only seal before grouting and some only seal after grouting I have experimented with all the methods and as far as I can make out when it comes to travertine there is no noticeable difference in the finish even if it is not sealed until after grouting. But I have to say for me old habits die hard.
After realising that other tilers around the country only seal before grouting and some only seal after grouting I have experimented with all the methods and as far as I can make out when it comes to travertine there is no noticeable difference in the finish even if it is not sealed until after grouting. But I have to say for me old habits die hard.
J
jonnyc
jamrock
i agree with comment above .
there is no and fast rule for every stone .
i think we all started out thinking that we had to preseal tiles before even laying and this was a throw back i think to when fired earth and elon brought in terracotta here. the big difference was the tiles were bone dry .
they came out a kiln and left out to cool down .
stone is cut from block and alot of it comes sopping wet because it is packed wet.
some tiles like travertine we get now are dry when they come out crate as are alot of the thinner harder stone tiles.
they are fine to preseal.
many porous 20mm thick stones from france /spain/italy take weeks to dry before you can apply a sealer hence laying them and letting the air get to them before sealing.
if a stone is opping wet you could grout wet and get away with it but you really need to know which ones you can do with this.
deano is right ,travertine doesntv show much difference but should be sealed after whole fixing/grouting process completed .
maybe it wonnt take much sealer.
different stones different amounts of sealer. recently did a bathstone which needed 1 litre per 2.50 sq mts .similar with italian pietra serenam whereas travertine might only need 1 litre for 15 sq mts
B
bugs183
It does depend though on who's doing the laying Deano.
You're a tiler who cares for your trade it's obvious you've you've been tiling for years, and having been trained proprerly you would know to leave your tiles spotless.
Yes you can lay and grout without sealing, but it does help you out no end.
But we all know what limestone tiling looks like done by someone who isn't a trained tiler!!!
It could be that the builder has made a lovely job without pre sealing the tiles before grouting, in which case all could be well.
But leaving stone with a builder who hasn't sealed his stone, it doesn't sound too promising does it!
You're a tiler who cares for your trade it's obvious you've you've been tiling for years, and having been trained proprerly you would know to leave your tiles spotless.
Yes you can lay and grout without sealing, but it does help you out no end.
But we all know what limestone tiling looks like done by someone who isn't a trained tiler!!!
It could be that the builder has made a lovely job without pre sealing the tiles before grouting, in which case all could be well.
But leaving stone with a builder who hasn't sealed his stone, it doesn't sound too promising does it!
