Discuss Grout or Silicon for 90 degree corner lines? in the Canada Tile Advice area at TilersForums.com.

M

Merlin5

Hi all. New here. I'm not a DIY person but I'm going to have a go at removing some grout (I bought a grout rake today) and either re-grouting, or using Silicon. I've just spent a small fortune on my flat over the last few months, (kitchen, bathroom, central heating, windows, etc) with a new bathroom installed from scratch by a builder, (back to the brick work and new stud wall) including new sand and cemented brick walls, hardiebacker water resistant boarding and then tiling. The grouting on the vertical line right in the corner between the tiles of two walls at right angles to each other and going from ceiling to bath had hairline cracked grout. The shower unit is on the wall to the right of the cracked grout line. My builder said to me he'd re-grout it and said it would crack again, as if to suggest it's natural for this to happen. I've no idea why he was saying this with such confidence instead of suggesting a way to actually prevent it. So he re-grouted, but made a pigs ear of it. Not only has it cracked again but he used the wrong grout. The grout is ivory but where he's redone it it's gone dark grey. There's also excess on the ceramic tiles that has also run some way into adjoining horizontal grout lines which I'm going to have to scrape off. He redid the porcelain floor tile grouting in places too and again, I had to scrape off excess grout which had hardened. At least he used the right grout this time. Lesson learned : never use a general builder to do tiling and grouting. Jack of all, master of none. Uneven tile spacing and some lipping in my 60 x 60cm porcelain kitchen floor tiles too. Yeah, pretty shoddy tbh. :thumbsdown:


I've been doing some research and it seems that unless there's absolutely no movement at all, that caulking is better than grout in corners where there's a change of plane because it flexes. Is that true? Now, is caulking basically the same as bathroom Silicon, like the stuff around the sides of my bath? I went out and bought a replacement bag of ivory coloured BAL microflex grout today from topps tiles (3.5kg, smallest they have), the same grout used for the rest of my bathroom. But now I'm wondering if I should not use it and go buy some caulk/Silicon instead? If so, I'd want to buy some to match the colour of my ivory grout, which is in fact, kind of beige coloured really. Silicon would be easier to apply too wouldn't it and would possibly look as nice?


Here's pictures to show you what it looks like, perhaps it'll help you give me a better idea of what I need to do? One photo shows the corner of the new plasterboard ceiling with a typical hairline crack for new plaster. That crack seems to follow through to the grout cracking. Perhaps that's making the grout crack, or maybe it's just general bath movement? I've really no idea.
Many thanks.
 

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R

Rookery

As you've found out to your cost, not all builders/general tradesmen can tile to a good standard. I regard caulk as decorators caulk, ie a fine filler and this isnt suitable either. Rake out all the grout AND adhesive from the corners and apply a bead of sanitary grade Silicon over the joint. If you need to re-grout any areas Microflex grout is excellent stuff.
 

John Benton

TF
Arms
2,203
1,138
Leeds
Not sure if you are using that shower yet, but I would advise against it, as will water will be penetrating the gap and going who knows where. As the guys have said, rake out the grout and replace with suitable coloured Silicon.

I do use decorators caulk, but only between the wall and ceiling. This allows the ceiling to be painted as Silicon will repel any emulsion.
 

beanz

TF
3
1,003
Berkshire
I wouldn't use a grout rake personally, as there shouldn't be that sort of space in the corner (I can't see pic, as I'm on my phone).. Actually, I'd never use a grout rake, as I think they're awful, and just chip your tiles. Use I window scraper on the face of the tiles, to clean the grout off, and a Stanley knife, to cut/dig the grout out. It'll take a while, and you'll go through a couple if blades, but you shouldn't chip your tiles this way.. Good luck with it ;)
 
M

Merlin5

Thank you very much everyone for all your tips! I'll pop down to topps and buy some coloured sanitary grade Silicon and a Silicon gun. I certainly hope no water or not too much has gone behind the tiles. If so, I'm hoping the hardiebacker board has helped as it's meant to be water resistant, but I'm going to remove the bath side panel and take a look and see if the floor is ok or wet.

beanz, I've got a ceramic hob cleaner which I think is pretty much the same as a window scraper, it's got a razer blade in it, perhaps that will help clean off the tile face, but I hope it doesn't scratch the glaze. I saw a youtube vid last night where someone used a screwdriver to rake out grout, would that be ok or also chip the tiles?


Rookery, I'll try and get the adhesive out too but it might be difficult for me to know if the adhesive is actually coming off, ie, I don't know how easily I'll be able to see the adhesive between the gaps after the grout is out. If I remove the grout but not much adhesive, will the Silicon not stick?

edit: Whilst showering today, I put my hand in front of the cracked grout line and there was really no noticeable water spray hitting the grout line. Obviously moisture in the air won't be good for it but I'd imagine it'll be ok, especially with the backer board. The tiles are solid, nothing loose. I think the advice about Silicon you guys gave me will save the day, and just in time. So I'm now tooled for the job as you can see in the attached picture. :) Does it matter if I cut the nozzle of the silicon bottle at an angle or just snip it off straight?
 

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M

Merlin5

Merlin5, I would leave it for a few days to let the grout dry out. If your original grout was BAL Ivory, then the nearest colour match Silicon is BAL 'champagne' (also available from TOPPS). Good luck

Hi Sean, thanks for your reply. Hmm, leaving it for a few days means no showering, or will it be ok for me to use the shower as a hand shower, crouch down in the bath, and just keep it away from that wall?

Are you positive about the BAL champagne? Because when the salesperson showed me little samples of the BAL colours, the first thing I said to her was that the champagne looks a really good match but she said it would be a bit more golden than I needed and that the manilla would be closer. So, shall I return the manilla and buy the champagne with confidence that it's the best match? I wouldn't want the Silicon to be darker than the grout, as light or lighter if anything.
 
M

Merlin5

Thanks micko, that would make life easier for me if I understood how to use that tape. I've watched a couple of videos and still don't quite understand how to use it. Lots of cuts, unfolding, peeling back. Wouldn't normal masking tape work?

Skip the above post of mine, I was being dumb. I watched another video and its dead simple to use. However, looking at my vertical joint line it's not an even width from top to bottom and also some of the tiles are not perfectly lined up, so I don't know how well cornertape would work for my walls. Should I get the widest cornertape 8mm, or maybe I should buy some low tack masking tape?
 
M

micko

I have never used the corner tape but I have heard it works well, Silicon can be very difficult to do well and if you have not used it before you will make a mess and spoil your tiling. Get whatever tape is wide enough to cover the gap, you don’t want to go too big.
There are also some forming tools out there that you can use in conjunction with washing up liquid, these also work well.

http://www.dolphinsealants.co.uk/shop/fugi-kit-5.html
 
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Grout or Silicon for 90 degree corner lines?
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Canada Tile Advice
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Which tile adhesive brand did you use most this year?

  • Palace

    Votes: 5 4.6%
  • Kerakoll

    Votes: 8 7.3%
  • Ardex

    Votes: 6 5.5%
  • Mapei

    Votes: 30 27.5%
  • Ultra Tile

    Votes: 14 12.8%
  • BAL

    Votes: 28 25.7%
  • Wedi

    Votes: 3 2.8%
  • Benfer

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • Tilemaster

    Votes: 19 17.4%
  • Weber

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  • Other (any other brand not listed)

    Votes: 13 11.9%
  • Nicobond

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  • Norcros

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  • Kelmore

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