Help Needed badly

[diamondtiling]

Viaticus you stick to that way of thinking and you will succeed, that is more or less what I was trying to say, you learn as you go along. I am self taught and did it as you say, the more confident I became the bigger the job I took on.

 

[jay]

okay 2 different views thats what forums are for im gona sit on the fence but bear in mind you have many different tiling corses over there like everything some good some shody but we all need to start somewere and nothing compares to experiance .from posts ive read danny diamonds seems to be a thougher course and the feedback confirms that but a person is only as good as what they are taut or what they are willing to learn we all know you wont become a tiler in 4 weeks it takes years but if you want to become a tiler a course is a step in the right direction (dont think you do apprentiships ) its up to the individual (have they got pride and respect) okay finished my rave back to the fence:8:

 

[Graham Bright]

Can I ask you guys a similar question but more focussed on the earning side.

I will put my cards on the table and say. I need to earn £500 a week. I currently earn more than that but in order to cover my bills and live thats what I would need. Money is not that importnat to me I am doing this for happiness and health reasons not to mention the working for myself and doing something I enjoy.

Would you suggest that it is going to take me years to be able to get to that level of income? I dont have years, I cant really stay in my current job for years so that would hurt. Not that I would give up!!

Or is it possible for me do take on the smaller more simple jobmuch sooner than that and be earning the £500 a week. Then as my skills go up I could then earn more if thats what I wanted or needed.

I would hate to think that I am years away from earning £500 a week as a tiler.

Sorry for dicsussing money and being honest but thats my personal situation.

 

[Danny@ Diamond]

Can I ask you guys a similar question but more focussed on the earning side.

I will put my cards on the table and say. I need to earn £500 a week. I currently earn more than that but in order to cover my bills and live thats what I would need. Money is not that importnat to me I am doing this for happiness and health reasons not to mention the working for myself and doing something I enjoy.

Would you suggest that it is going to take me years to be able to get to that level of income? I dont have years, I cant really stay in my current job for years so that would hurt. Not that I would give up!!

Or is it possible for me do take on the smaller more simple jobmuch sooner than that and be earning the £500 a week. Then as my skills go up I could then earn more if thats what I wanted or needed.

I would hate to think that I am years away from earning £500 a week as a tiler.

Sorry for dicsussing money and being honest but thats my personal situation.

This is more than realistic within a few months not years

 

[Stan001]

I was wary of posting as this is a somewhat sensitive subject and I also can see both sides of the argument, but here is my 2 cents on the subject having been in a similar situation.

I am an NHBC registered solo builder, I also have a diploma in electronics - so i have opinions on education and tiling.

I love tiling and have been doing my own tiling for years now, self taught, books and build colleagues. When I told mates I thought I’d like to really learn to tile in a professional manner (for my own builds and for others) they thought I was nuts, they said ‘why bother? Your tilings good Stan!’. I disagreed, I thought my tiling is ok, but I want to be much much better than that.

So I got myself onto the Diamond Training 4 week course with the intention of being field tested afterwards to get my NVQ level 2 (even though I will never do site work other than on my own sites).

I have completed week 1 and I’m now into week 2 … already I have learnt …

A quicker and more accurate way of measuring and cutting tiles.
A better way of using nippers.
A better way to tile around a window and square it out.
A better way to set out datums.
A better and faster way to lay out a / plan a room.
Learnt the correct way to layout brick set.
Learnt how to layout and fix diamond set (yes this was done on day 3!) … no boxing in the edges with square set like some Pro(?) tilers do, diamond wraps around corners! … I had never done this before.
… every day I learn something new, and this is in parallel to picking up numerous bits of info on subjects such as the many adhesives, tools and materials that are formerly covered on the course in any case.

I’m sure to a pro tiler this all sounds very boring and simple (it is after all just the start of week 2) but as someone who’s been through 5 years worth of further education and I’ve actually trained people myself on technical and commercial subjects, plus bearing in mind my previous tiling experience, I can only say I was blown away by how much I learnt and was made to put to practice in such a short time. The bottom line is I am ALREADY working much faster, smarter and more accurately, plus I’ve learnt entirely new things.
I was also very sceptical that so much could be learnt in such a short time. Having done my first week and seen 4 and 6 week guys on the course alongside me I absolutely do not have those worries regarding the effectiveness of a short course. There’s a guy in a kitchen unit near my bathroom unit (we learn in full size rooms) who’s work (a complete floor and wall full room with diagonal brickbond and diamond set) is to such a high standard I would happily employ him on one of my sites tomorrow! .. he is a landscape gardener! Enough said!

I am absolutely positive there are some more that excellent A1 tilers here on this forum who are self taught and have never been to any form of college or intensive course as offered by the sponsors of this forum. In fact I’ve looked at your portfolios – its excellent work, really excellent, you inspire me to be an excellent creative tiler. But for me I could not imagine taking on challenging projects without the excellent training I am lucky enough to be experiencing at Diamond Training. There are some things I have learnt from an instructor called Sam (top end tiler for over 7 years with additional experience of teaching in training centres not just at Diamond) that I just wouldn’t (or couldn’t) learn ‘on the job’! What does ‘on the job’ mean? Does that mean I charge someone anything north of £150 a day for them to be my guinea-pig? Maybe he gets a good job, maybe he doesn’t? And what is the point of quality reference if the only benchmark you have is your own opinion of your own work, standards and methods? So what is ‘good’? and what is a ‘professional’ tiler?

I am in the unique position now of being on both sides on the fence, I build – I employ, I tile – I hope to be self employed in parallel to my building.

From what I see the college system doesn’t work, I have two sons, both teenagers, one at college studying science and the other off to uni to study civil engineering. I can tell you that college courses are a few hours each week. The courses as offered by the forum sponsors pack many months into a few weeks more effectively and with massively superior facilities. People who succeed with their NVQ at college do so IN SPITE of the education system offered to them. And many drop out. Failed by the system, these same people would probably succeed on an intensive course in a dedicated facility.

I am firm supporter of these intensive courses, I personally wouldn’t like to train me on some poor ‘potential victims’ job. Colleges are ineffective. Plus I support certification standards! On this subject: the best way we can get everyone on this forum protected and respected is to get everyone properly educated with proof. NVQ2 is at least a good start. Then Id even say raise that bar much higher to an NVQ3 and 4 within the next 5 years. If we want the respect and that extra £100 a day sparkies regularly get paid then we all need to see tiling professionalised! Why? Well in the last year I (with my builder hat on) needed two top end Matki showers installed in two bathrooms. I did the job myself (tiling) alongside my plumber (who stuck to the pipework / drainage + thermosatic valves in the walls etc.)….
So I’m installing thousand of pounds worth of Matki top end shower enclosures, new walls and super expensive hidden in wall behind tiles Hans Grohe thermostatic units. It simply has to go in right and look right and not leak when I sell the house. Now if I didn’t do the job myself or didn’t know of the existence of this forum ( and have seen the excellent quality turned out here, but Joe Blow isn’t going to go doing this much digging) then how would I as a builder and employer know if your work is good or not? … simply , I don’t! I predict that within 5 years you will have to show qualifications to work on self build and domestics in addition to the late introduction of NVQ2 + tiling CSCA cards for site build. Because people like me with expensive projects cant afford to take a risk because ‘you’ recon you’re the mutts nuts at tiling or you have a nice van. (also 3 years in Germany tells me build standards in the UK by comparison – suck!)

So I can only speak for me and share my experience from someone probably somewhat uniquely on both sides of the fence. Will I ever be a pro tiler like some of you guys certainly are - I don’t know. I only know that I’ve learnt more last week than Id learnt in the last year, and that’s a little 52x improvement that gets my vote right now.

Viaticus – you have great attitude and I think we create our own luck in life – I’m sure you’ll find a way, first step as Dave says – go get an intensive course then take it from there IMHO.

Diamondtiling – I agree in general with your post, these courses cant take the place of education AND experience. But I think you need one to lead to the other. I do disagree with the idea of pro-tilers being self taught as a possibly good route to go these days. We never hear about the multiple minor and major bodges suffered by the tiler and endured by the customer along the way. I’d personally take a person straight off one of these 4 or 6 week courses over a 1 year self taught person any day. In fact I’d be bold enough to say that a 4 week courser would run rings around a multi-year DIYer!

My thanks go to Diamond Training for making me love diamond set and making 8 hour days feel like an hour, providing lots of coffee and teaching a Mancunian how to say trowel like an Essex boy! ( fyi – that’s like 'traaaaal' … much harder to say than cutting curves with a Rubi dry cutter!).
{if you are considering training at Diamond then just call/email Danny, they let you go and check-out their centre and you can ask lots of dumb questions just like I did – then make up your own mind}

Flame-suit on I suppose :lol: – oh well.

… Stan (written without prejudice – legal *** covered etc etc etc ….. sorry about the long posting)

 

[jimbob]

Stan001 - good post that mate, well written.

 

[Graham Bright]

I was wary of posting as this is a somewhat sensitive subject and I also can see both sides of the argument, but here is my 2 cents on the subject having been in a similar situation.

I am an NHBC registered solo builder, I also have a diploma in electronics - so i have opinions on education and tiling.

I love tiling and have been doing my own tiling for years now, self taught, books and build colleagues. When I told mates I thought I’d like to really learn to tile in a professional manner (for my own builds and for others) they thought I was nuts, they said ‘why bother? Your tilings good Stan!’. I disagreed, I thought my tiling is ok, but I want to be much much better than that.

So I got myself onto the Diamond Training 4 week course with the intention of being field tested afterwards to get my NVQ level 2 (even though I will never do site work other than on my own sites).

I have completed week 1 and I’m now into week 2 … already I have learnt …

A quicker and more accurate way of measuring and cutting tiles.
A better way of using nippers.
A better way to tile around a window and square it out.
A better way to set out datums.
A better and faster way to lay out a / plan a room.
Learnt the correct way to layout brick set.
Learnt how to layout and fix diamond set (yes this was done on day 3!) … no boxing in the edges with square set like some Pro(?) tilers do, diamond wraps around corners! … I had never done this before.
… every day I learn something new, and this is in parallel to picking up numerous bits of info on subjects such as the many adhesives, tools and materials that are formerly covered on the course in any case.

I’m sure to a pro tiler this all sounds very boring and simple (it is after all just the start of week 2) but as someone who’s been through 5 years worth of further education and I’ve actually trained people myself on technical and commercial subjects, plus bearing in mind my previous tiling experience, I can only say I was blown away by how much I learnt and was made to put to practice in such a short time. The bottom line is I am ALREADY working much faster, smarter and more accurately, plus I’ve learnt entirely new things.
I was also very sceptical that so much could be learnt in such a short time. Having done my first week and seen 4 and 6 week guys on the course alongside me I absolutely do not have those worries regarding the effectiveness of a short course. There’s a guy in a kitchen unit near my bathroom unit (we learn in full size rooms) who’s work (a complete floor and wall full room with diagonal brickbond and diamond set) is to such a high standard I would happily employ him on one of my sites tomorrow! .. he is a landscape gardener! Enough said!

I am absolutely positive there are some more that excellent A1 tilers here on this forum who are self taught and have never been to any form of college or intensive course as offered by the sponsors of this forum. In fact I’ve looked at your portfolios – its excellent work, really excellent, you inspire me to be an excellent creative tiler. But for me I could not imagine taking on challenging projects without the excellent training I am lucky enough to be experiencing at Diamond Training. There are some things I have learnt from an instructor called Sam (top end tiler for over 7 years with additional experience of teaching in training centres not just at Diamond) that I just wouldn’t (or couldn’t) learn ‘on the job’! What does ‘on the job’ mean? Does that mean I charge someone anything north of £150 a day for them to be my guinea-pig? Maybe he gets a good job, maybe he doesn’t? And what is the point of quality reference if the only benchmark you have is your own opinion of your own work, standards and methods? So what is ‘good’? and what is a ‘professional’ tiler?

I am in the unique position now of being on both sides on the fence, I build – I employ, I tile – I hope to be self employed in parallel to my building.

From what I see the college system doesn’t work, I have two sons, both teenagers, one at college studying science and the other off to uni to study civil engineering. I can tell you that college courses are a few hours each week. The courses as offered by the forum sponsors pack many months into a few weeks more effectively and with massively superior facilities. People who succeed with their NVQ at college do so IN SPITE of the education system offered to them. And many drop out. Failed by the system, these same people would probably succeed on an intensive course in a dedicated facility.

I am firm supporter of these intensive courses, I personally wouldn’t like to train me on some poor ‘potential victims’ job. Colleges are ineffective. Plus I support certification standards! On this subject: the best way we can get everyone on this forum protected and respected is to get everyone properly educated with proof. NVQ2 is at least a good start. Then Id even say raise that bar much higher to an NVQ3 and 4 within the next 5 years. If we want the respect and that extra £100 a day sparkies regularly get paid then we all need to see tiling professionalised! Why? Well in the last year I (with my builder hat on) needed two top end Matki showers installed in two bathrooms. I did the job myself (tiling) alongside my plumber (who stuck to the pipework / drainage + thermosatic valves in the walls etc.)….
So I’m installing thousand of pounds worth of Matki top end shower enclosures, new walls and super expensive hidden in wall behind tiles Hans Grohe thermostatic units. It simply has to go in right and look right and not leak when I sell the house. Now if I didn’t do the job myself or didn’t know of the existence of this forum ( and have seen the excellent quality turned out here, but Joe Blow isn’t going to go doing this much digging) then how would I as a builder and employer know if your work is good or not? … simply , I don’t! I predict that within 5 years you will have to show qualifications to work on self build and domestics in addition to the late introduction of NVQ2 + tiling CSCA cards for site build. Because people like me with expensive projects cant afford to take a risk because ‘you’ recon you’re the mutts nuts at tiling or you have a nice van. (also 3 years in Germany tells me build standards in the UK by comparison – suck!)

So I can only speak for me and share my experience from someone probably somewhat uniquely on both sides of the fence. Will I ever be a pro tiler like some of you guys certainly are - I don’t know. I only know that I’ve learnt more last week than Id learnt in the last year, and that’s a little 52x improvement that gets my vote right now.

Viaticus – you have great attitude and I think we create our own luck in life – I’m sure you’ll find a way, first step as Dave says – go get an intensive course then take it from there IMHO.

Diamondtiling – I agree in general with your post, these courses cant take the place of education AND experience. But I think you need one to lead to the other. I do disagree with the idea of pro-tilers being self taught as a possibly good route to go these days. We never hear about the multiple minor and major bodges suffered by the tiler and endured by the customer along the way. I’d personally take a person straight off one of these 4 or 6 week courses over a 1 year self taught person any day. In fact I’d be bold enough to say that a 4 week courser would run rings around a multi-year DIYer!

My thanks go to Diamond Training for making me love diamond set and making 8 hour days feel like an hour, providing lots of coffee and teaching a Mancunian how to say trowel like an Essex boy! ( fyi – that’s like 'traaaaal' … much harder to say than cutting curves with a Rubi dry cutter!).
{if you are considering training at Diamond then just call/email Danny, they let you go and check-out their centre and you can ask lots of dumb questions just like I did – then make up your own mind}

Flame-suit on I suppose :lol: – oh well.

… Stan (written without prejudice – legal *** covered etc etc etc ….. sorry about the long posting)

You are an inspiration mate and thats exactly what I needed to hear. :hurray:

 

[Colour Republic]

Very inspiring Stan

 

[PGM Tiling Solutions]

Fantastic post Stan. As a fellow trainee on the same course as Stan I can only comment on my experience of the intense course route and the excellent training techniques and facilities available at Diamond. I realise that on completing my 4 week course I will obviously lack the experience, speed and skills of a seasoned tiler. The skills learnt on these courses enables us to have the confidence to go out and start working whether it is part time initially, working for/along side an experienced tiler or having the confidence to go self employed from the outset.

 

[vince1]

hi mate do darrens coures north east tiling. i did it and i have been self employed for 3 years now. :hurray:

 

[UKTT Darren]

Hi Vince, glad to here your still at it and doing well, time flys, doesnt seem that long since you were here, best of luck for the future
Regards
Darren

 

[Little5]

Hi Viaticus, I have read all the posts and the choice is down to you. No-one has been on all the courses so each of us can only give our own experience.
I went on NETT courses almost a year ago and would thoroughly recommend Darren and his team for making something that can sound complicated, Not So. If youve got half an incline towards DIY then the NETT course is spot on. Even if your new it will take a bit longer, but its set out to help at all stages.
Good Luck

 

[UKTT Darren]

Doesnt seem like a year since you were on, Dont know where the time goes, hope you are still doing well
Regards
Darren

 

[Terry Cottar]

I would just like to make a point that I have conversly met some tilers who have done tiling for 20+ years and I thought their work was rubbish as well. So imo there are good and bad from both sides. One thing is however for certain "" You can't buy experience""

tel

 

[White Room]

Read my signiture, worked for me