How much of it is hype?

[ag1975]

Hi. Been thinking about tile adhesives, primers, systems etc and wondering just how much of it is hype. Manufacturers say you should use their own brand of primer and adhesive etc together, is there a problem with mixing and matching with other brands?

How much better are the likes of BAL and Mapei than the other cheaper alternatives? Do they really make that much difference? As more of a DIY tiler at the moment, would I be just as well off using cheaper stuff?

Enlighten me please

 

[Rookery]

I expect that as a general rule, the more expensive adhesives perform better or are better to apply. Plus you get good technical support from the likes of BAL & Mapei, in my experience. Sometimes this can be vital. I sometimes do mix brands on a job. For example, I'd use Mapei primer G if I had it on the van even if I was using BAL adhesive. Groutwise, I always use Mapei UCP regardless of the adhesive.

 

[Andy Allen]

as tilers we tend to use what suits us best, price is not allways a factor, some use only bal because that suits them, i use weber and imo its as good as bal but cheaper..

 

[Bubblecraft]

The bigger companies like Bal & Mapie have tried & tested their own adhesives & grouts with primers & additives. This way they can guarantee their own products. Once you mix & match, there is no tell of the outcome. There no harm mixing adhesives & grouts, they serve 2 different purposes. I could use a Bal rapid flex to adhere the tiles & a Mapie grout to finish but I would only use a Bal SBR primer first & a Bal AD1 (if required) with a Bal adhesive. Items like this should next be mixed. For something to save you a couple of pound could end up costing you thousands to rectify

 

[widler]

i always find the likes of mapei ,bal and webber to be cheaper than the DIY stuff they sell in the sheds,a lot cheaper.
jeez you can go in bq and buy mapei for something like £25 whereas its £10 ish in tile giant.

 

[Ceramico tiling]

Good question it got me thinking! I think a good thing to go by is an adhesives relative CE specs on the bag.Adhesives that have specs eg C2FTES1. have passed tests to bear their CE ratings.I have included their meanings below.


C – Cementitious adhesive
D – Dispersion adhesive
R – Reaction adhesive
Each type of adhesive can potentially have additional characteristics, which fall under the
following classes:
1 – Normal adhesive (standard strength tile adhesive)
2 – Improved adhesive (stronger tile adhesive)
F – Fast setting/drying adhesive (quicker setting of the adhesive allowing for earlier grouting)
T – Slip resistant adhesive (no slipping of wall tiles)
E – Adhesive with extended open time (once spread, the adhesive can be left without a tile being
fixed for a longer time)
S – Special deformable characteristic, for cementitious adhesives only (degree of flexibility of the adhesive, either S1 - flexible or S2 - highly flexible

I think most tilers on this forum have had problems with the more obscure brands,,mine being granfix and dunlop..

 

[The D]

The reason you do not mix and match primers and adhesives is so that the manufacturers do not have an easy get out if anything fails. If you use Mapei primer and Weber adhesive and you have a failure one will blame the other and you will end up out of pocket.

 

[Houston]

whatever adhesive you use just use their primer as simple as that. Always cover yourself.

 

[Ajax123]

There is no technical reason why brands should not be mixed. There are however sound and sensible commercial reasons.... E.g You could use five different manufacturers i.e two different primers and three different adhesives on the same floor if you want but as Deano says.... If it goes wrong up you will never get any of the five manufacturers to agree on anything if it does go wrong.

 

[Dougs Third Go]

as Ajax, if for instance a primer is there to act as a barrier between a gypsum and cement reaction, surely it should do that regardless of what colour the bag is!. I've no problem at all cross branding products, ie, webers pr360 with tilemaster setaflex. Most primers give variable dilution rates so it's not an exact science imo

 

[charlie1]

From what i gather its very difficult getting them to accept liability at the best of times!!

 

[True Tiling]

I've had this mind-masher for some time, but have rested upon Weber products. I use Primer 360 (which is good for all most all backgrounds) and affordable. Diluted to the right ratio, it's an excellent primer and their products are priced right, work nicely and perform as good as any. I converted from BAL and saved a packet!

 

[Dougs Third Go]

From what i gather its very difficult getting them to accept liability at the best of times!!

in 30 odd years I've never had to make a claim

 

[True Tiling]

Me neither. What you using?

 

[charlie1]

I've never claimed either, did have one floor fail last year but i just replaced it at no cost. IM just thinking, there are so many hiding places for a manufacturer it would make it difficult to pin anything on them!

 

[DHTiling]

as Ajax, if for instance a primer is there to act as a barrier between a gypsum and cement reaction, surely it should do that regardless of what colour the bag is!. I've no problem at all cross branding products, ie, webers pr360 with tilemaster setaflex. Most primers give variable dilution rates so it's not an exact science imo

Doug... how you finding the tile master gear.. ?

 

[Mark S]

As per most of the replies, keep the products you use, primer, adhesive etc to 1 manufacturer, then there will be no compatability issues, and the manufacturers do push for 'systems', and for good reason.

 

[Dougs Third Go]

Doug... how you finding the tile master gear.. ?

I really like it Dave

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

As most for me, I always use the same primer as the adhesive, and I love Tile Master Levelflex compound.

 

[charlie1]

As most for me, I always use the same primer as the adhesive, and I love Tile Master Levelflex compound.

that's the gear you where telling me about eh? Have you used Webber slc Phil?

 

[jonnyc]

Everything's hunky dory till there's a problem. In my experience one should ideally stick to same product range from start to finish. If you ever have a problem there is a reference back.i know it does not always happen in reality when we don't have the materials available .
but if you have a problem of a failure you don't stand a chance if you have mixed products from different manufacturers

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

that's the gear you where telling me about eh? Have you used Webber slc Phil?

Thats the stuff Mark, not used Webber yet, is it good?

 

[jonnyc]

As most for me, I always use the same primer as the adhesive, and I love Tile Master Levelflex compound.

So phil are you using the tile master adhesives as well.
i have heard loads of good reports about the levelling compound which I have used and rate it good but I have heard less about their adhesives although there have also been positive reports..
gary the tiler put me on to tile master 6 months ago and I have to say for what I want, it is the best in the market for the price by a long stretch.
we use the setaflex and it is ideal for us and I can go in to to specifics for stone fixers if it is of interest.
I have a very good feeling about this company and have spoken at length with them .i personally think they are at a point where they could become a bigger player in next few years and this will be down to their endeavours and the tilers who endorse their products.
I don't know how all this works and I don't want to be seen as someone who is seen as a paid endorser because I am not .I once supported another small adhesive company on here just because i wanted to tell others about what i tnought was a good deal and got banned .this was a misunderstanding and has been sorted now .

 

[charlie1]

Thats the stuff Mark, not used Webber yet, is it good?

Yes, best i have used yet. Very runny, allows 5.25L of water so in self levelling terms, the "self" really applies!!

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

So phil are you using the tile master adhesives as well.
i have heard loads of good reports about the levelling compound which I have used and rate it good but I have heard less about their adhesives although there have also been positive reports..
gary the tiler put me on to tile master 6 months ago and I have to say for what I want, it is the best in the market for the price by a long stretch.
we use the setaflex and it is ideal for us and I can go in to to specifics for stone fixers if it is of interest.
I have a very good feeling about this company and have spoken at length with them .i personally think they are at a point where they could become a bigger player in next few years and this will be down to their endeavours and the tilers who endorse their products.
I don't know how all this works and I don't want to be seen as someone who is seen as a paid endorser because I am not .I once supported another small adhesive company on here just because i wanted to tell others about what i tnought was a good deal and got banned .this was a misunderstanding and has been sorted now .

No Jonny I have not tried their adhesive yet, but I will.