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Stan001
I know that cables installed in walls where the cable runs less than 50mm from the surface have to run inside metal trunking now. They should also as run within 150mm of room wall to wall interface or vertically and horizontally from the socket or switch. Now the situation you ref to is slightly different in that the trip specified for your circuit is the lower lighting circuit current but still 240V. However I think the same rules apply. At least your switching is outside the wet room area.
The idea behind these rules is that users should be protected against mains power by more than a couple of mil of plastic or a bit of plaster or plasterboard (at least a bonded metal trunking provides some mechanical and electrical protection).
The bottom line though is unfortunately by logic ref your case may not be 100% on target – but the people who can advise you are will be your local council building regulations officer. They will happily visit and tell you if your cabling is in conformance (I don’t think it is). Hopefully you have not paid that ‘sparky’ yet!! If you have then you can take him to small claims with a building regs report in your hand (will cost you £50) and he will be instructed to rectify his work in accordance with regs.
The other thing you can get him on is Part P (does he have it?) its required by the local council regs people for anything more than a spur addition to a currently installed circuit, and I believe for all wet room (bathroom!) electrics. IF he doesn’t have it he’s toast. The council officer will do him, you pursue him for costs and get a Part P sparks to rectify the job.
Like I say I only have some of the story but call your local council building regs guys and they will tell you.
Fyi … sorta related ….
Cables concealed in a wall or partition - Voltimum UK - Electrical Installation Products and Contracting
The idea behind these rules is that users should be protected against mains power by more than a couple of mil of plastic or a bit of plaster or plasterboard (at least a bonded metal trunking provides some mechanical and electrical protection).
The bottom line though is unfortunately by logic ref your case may not be 100% on target – but the people who can advise you are will be your local council building regulations officer. They will happily visit and tell you if your cabling is in conformance (I don’t think it is). Hopefully you have not paid that ‘sparky’ yet!! If you have then you can take him to small claims with a building regs report in your hand (will cost you £50) and he will be instructed to rectify his work in accordance with regs.
The other thing you can get him on is Part P (does he have it?) its required by the local council regs people for anything more than a spur addition to a currently installed circuit, and I believe for all wet room (bathroom!) electrics. IF he doesn’t have it he’s toast. The council officer will do him, you pursue him for costs and get a Part P sparks to rectify the job.
Like I say I only have some of the story but call your local council building regs guys and they will tell you.
Fyi … sorta related ….
Cables concealed in a wall or partition - Voltimum UK - Electrical Installation Products and Contracting
H
Haywood.J
Hi guys
Many many thanks for your replies and information, very much appreciated.
My parents have paid for their part of the work but they used a visa debit card, I know from experience that it is possible to recall the payment and I will tell the company that this is exactly what I will do if the problem is not sorted.
As for the regulations, I'm sure these people will have all the things they need as most of the work they do is through the council.
If the fan had to be connected to the light, I don't see why they couldn't have done this when the bathroom was empty, thus the cable would have been hidden.
The electrician was supposed to come back on day four to install the fan but it was a week later when he arrived, don't think this would have made a difference as the tiles were already on by then.
If anyone had said that there would have been trunking over the tiles, I would have got another electrician or company or paid extra to get it hidden, as it is the bathroom is totally ruined and hideous.
I have the number of the social works lady and will give her a call on Monday.
I have no intention of giving up on this and will recall the money my parents have paid and take them to a small claims court to get the problem sorted, wouldn't look good for the company, this happening to two over 70's.
Watch this space for any developments as the company could be named and shamed and reviews placed all over the web.
Many thanks again for your replies and support.
Haywood
Many many thanks for your replies and information, very much appreciated.
My parents have paid for their part of the work but they used a visa debit card, I know from experience that it is possible to recall the payment and I will tell the company that this is exactly what I will do if the problem is not sorted.
As for the regulations, I'm sure these people will have all the things they need as most of the work they do is through the council.
If the fan had to be connected to the light, I don't see why they couldn't have done this when the bathroom was empty, thus the cable would have been hidden.
The electrician was supposed to come back on day four to install the fan but it was a week later when he arrived, don't think this would have made a difference as the tiles were already on by then.
If anyone had said that there would have been trunking over the tiles, I would have got another electrician or company or paid extra to get it hidden, as it is the bathroom is totally ruined and hideous.
I have the number of the social works lady and will give her a call on Monday.
I have no intention of giving up on this and will recall the money my parents have paid and take them to a small claims court to get the problem sorted, wouldn't look good for the company, this happening to two over 70's.
Watch this space for any developments as the company could be named and shamed and reviews placed all over the web.
Many thanks again for your replies and support.
Haywood
J
jay
thanks haywood,j any chance of some pics we like pics:8: and good luck let us know
D
diamondtiling
Debit card? are you sure you can recall that money? I know your covered if you use a credit card. I watched a programme the other week about buying online and all were advised that debit cards had no backup at all. I hope you get all this sorted out, maybe get another builder in and get his thoughts down on paper.
S
Stan001
As you say it is normal for the lighting and fan to be linked with the double isolator (which must go outside the wet room – normally high above doorway). You can obey / get around the 50mm rule by taking your lighting and extractor fan wiring vertically up to the top of the joist (rather than run over the surface of your plasterboard ceiling) and run under P clips. Then as you say you easily lose that horrible plastic trunking at least for the ceiling (which would only collect condensation and mould anyway). Its all an easy and low cost fix except for the wall tiles.
I would not assume that because they work for the council that they will work to spec. many of the trades will do whatever they think they can get away with without a foreman or customer looking over their shoulder.
What is a bit legally mad is that now its installed if you or anyone electrically technically competent want to reroute it (even if you don’t have Part P) I believe you are now legally allowed to do so as you are not extending or adding to a circuit! (but check this). Obviously if you decide to DIY then remove your trip or at minimum tape it up when you work.
Very best of luck with your call to the council . (sorry Im so far away or i would have come and at min made it safe for your parents - its only a 30minute job to fix the overhead wires - slice then add a loop up to over the joist to lose that horizontal trunking - Im a bit worried that those overhead plastic channels have created the equivelent of a drip loop into your fan if its underslung, please get it sorted asap or if your folks need to use it until you get it sorted snap the channel covers off and squirt blobs of silicon at the end of the channels )
I would not assume that because they work for the council that they will work to spec. many of the trades will do whatever they think they can get away with without a foreman or customer looking over their shoulder.
What is a bit legally mad is that now its installed if you or anyone electrically technically competent want to reroute it (even if you don’t have Part P) I believe you are now legally allowed to do so as you are not extending or adding to a circuit! (but check this). Obviously if you decide to DIY then remove your trip or at minimum tape it up when you work.
Very best of luck with your call to the council . (sorry Im so far away or i would have come and at min made it safe for your parents - its only a 30minute job to fix the overhead wires - slice then add a loop up to over the joist to lose that horizontal trunking - Im a bit worried that those overhead plastic channels have created the equivelent of a drip loop into your fan if its underslung, please get it sorted asap or if your folks need to use it until you get it sorted snap the channel covers off and squirt blobs of silicon at the end of the channels )
T
Terry Cottar
C
Curt 2444
yep totally right no back up with debit card i had this with a advertiser a couple of weeks ago who ripped me off. back up if it is a credit card i tried to recall within 5 minutes of the transaction goin through to no avail
curt
curt
M
mikethetile
hi hj
welcome to the forum
the building regs quoted above are correct and apply to new build/local authority housing in england
in retro work to private owned property they only apply if you bed the wiring within the wall, in which case it has to conform to building regs and be inspected and passed by someone who holds part p
if you surface mount in trunking those regs dont apply but other regs do
providing the installation complies and is passed by a part p holder , the asthetics are not covered by building control
do not interfere with or alter the installation unless you are quailified to do so
i know this isnt what you want to hear but but wait untill after the holiday and then contact building control for further advice
dont let it ruin your christmas and new year
welcome to the forum
the building regs quoted above are correct and apply to new build/local authority housing in england
in retro work to private owned property they only apply if you bed the wiring within the wall, in which case it has to conform to building regs and be inspected and passed by someone who holds part p
if you surface mount in trunking those regs dont apply but other regs do
providing the installation complies and is passed by a part p holder , the asthetics are not covered by building control
do not interfere with or alter the installation unless you are quailified to do so
i know this isnt what you want to hear but but wait untill after the holiday and then contact building control for further advice
dont let it ruin your christmas and new year
H
Haywood.J
Hi Guys
Thanks again for the information and advice, much appreciated.
The trunking and wires are safe as far as I know, but I'm not an electrician.
I'm sure the debit card is covered as it's a visa and I recalled money that was paid to a big furniture supplier which went bust not that long ago, I'm sure everyone will remember, just before last Christmas.
It did take a little time to get it back though but this was probably because there were thousands trying the same and the administrators were in, I feel it wont take that long with this company.
I am visiting my parents tomorrow so will get some photo's and let you all see what a mess this trunking makes of the bathroom.
Haywood
Thanks again for the information and advice, much appreciated.
The trunking and wires are safe as far as I know, but I'm not an electrician.
I'm sure the debit card is covered as it's a visa and I recalled money that was paid to a big furniture supplier which went bust not that long ago, I'm sure everyone will remember, just before last Christmas.
It did take a little time to get it back though but this was probably because there were thousands trying the same and the administrators were in, I feel it wont take that long with this company.
I am visiting my parents tomorrow so will get some photo's and let you all see what a mess this trunking makes of the bathroom.
Haywood
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