Issues with tiling on chipboard

[benson]

Hi, just after a bit of advice on a tiling job that a professional fitter did for me in my kitchen around 10 months ago.

The flooring was chipboard, and we've had the whole kitchen redone with the fitter doing the floor tiles. I bought a load of 6mm ply assuming that he was going to insist on this as the chipboard creaked in one place (we had the same creaking chipboard in our bathroom and the fitter, a different chap, told us 6mm ply would have to go down first, hence why. Incidentally the bathroom is fine 2years after this was done). When it got round to the tiling, he was going to tile directly onto the chipboard. When I questioned this he said that he could put down the ply if I wanted but didn't really matter either way. In the end the ply board went down first.

The issue is this. The join for two bits of ply has unfortunately been placed directly over the area that was creaking, and predictably the tiled floor now creaks in the same place. This started around six months after it was laid. I've been advised that the whole floor will need to come up and be re-done.

What I'm after if possible is some independent advice as to where I might stand in relation to getting the work re-done free of charge. Is it reasonable to assume that a tiler would do a tiling job onto creaking chipboard and put reasonable measures in place to make sure that it didn't creak once the tiles were laid, or I'm I unrealistic in my expectations? I've asked, and the clear indication from the fitter is that he wouldn't be willing to sort it for free.

Thanks in advance

 

[macten]

Hi Benson,

Both the tilers you've had have not done their jobs properly.
Chipboard must be overlayed with 15mm min WBP ply or a 6mm cement board is a better option. Any movement (creaking) in the chipboard should have been sorted before the overlay goes down.

 

[Andy Allen]

hi and welcome to the forum, is the floor a floating floor?

 

[benson]

hi and welcome to the forum, is the floor a floating floor?

Hi yes it is a floating floor..

 

[Andy Allen]

Hi yes it is a floating floor..[/QUOTE

personaly i would never tile on a floating floor, to unstable imo...

 

[Perry]

well it shouldn't be tiled then :yikes:

 

[macten]

It gets worse!

 

[Ajax123]

Floating floors can be tiled but it depends on how well they are constructed and from what materials. The adhesive, grout and tile size selection must be considered very carefully.

There are often issues with floating floors failing due to something ine the above not being taken account of. In this instance the ply was not deep enough and chip board should never be used as a tile substrate as it moves far too much. It should have been minimum 15mm ply or better still a cement based backer board.

The insualtion under the board will also have a major contributing effect as this is what determines the level of deflection. The insulation if too compressible will allow the screed to deflect. Unstable insulationso such as PIR types can curlmleadingto voids underneath and subsequent deflection issues. Polystyrene is often too spongy.......an EPS 150 would probably be fine but most domestic floors use EPS 70

If it creaked it was moving . This should have been dealt with first.

Most tilers rightly shy away from tiling such floors because of the generally poor construction and lack of certainty as to their stability. They re not the easiest floors to navigate. This is one reason that screeded floors are far more common these days.

The tiler who tiled this floor appears to have failed to observe due diligence in my opinion which in a court or tribunal would be considered professional negligence.

 

[benson]

Floating floors can be tiled but it depends on how well they are constructed and from what materials. The adhesive, grout and tile size selection must be considered very carefully.

There are often issues with floating floors failing due to something ine the above not being taken account of. In this instance the ply was not deep enough and chip board should never be used as a tile substrate as it moves far too much. It should have been minimum 15mm ply or better still a cement based backer board.

The insualtion under the board will also have a major contributing effect as this is what determines the level of deflection. The insulation if too compressible will allow the screed to deflect. Unstable insulationso such as PIR types can curlmleadingto voids underneath and subsequent deflection issues. Polystyrene is often too spongy.......an EPS 150 would probably be fine but most domestic floors use EPS 70

If it creaked it was moving . This should have been dealt with first.

Most tilers rightly shy away from tiling such floors because of the generally poor construction and lack of certainty as to their stability. They re not the easiest floors to navigate. This is one reason that screeded floors are far more common these days.

The tiler who tiled this floor appears to have failed to observe due diligence in my opinion which in a court or tribunal would be considered professional negligence.

Thank you this was the advice I was after....just out of interest what other aesthetically pleasing (i.e not lino) flooring options are there realistically for floating chipboad flooring when the advice on here is to steer well clear of tiling on it?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

From the first sentence of your second paragraph, I read it that the kitchen fitter did the tiling of your kitchen floor.
If this is the case then I doubt that you have any comeback whatsoever as his lack of knowledge and preparation of substrate is totally unacceptable, and your terminology that he is a professional fitter can not be used in the context of the tiling element involved.

 

[Ajax123]

Thank you this was the advice I was after....just out of interest what other aesthetically pleasing (i.e not lino) flooring options are there realistically for floating chipboad flooring when the advice on here is to steer well clear of tiling on it?

Posibly something like amtico or karndean could be usedit even a sheet vynil. It would still be better in a different type of sheet boarding e.g. Ply.

 

[AJPlumbing]

Thank you this was the advice I was after....just out of interest what other aesthetically pleasing (i.e not lino) flooring options are there realistically for floating chipboad flooring when the advice on here is to steer well clear of tiling on it?

Your floor will creak though... Tiles haven't cracked though from your description, it's just the creaking that you don't like?

 

[benson]

Your floor will creak though... Tiles haven't cracked though from your description, it's just the creaking that you don't like?

No the tiles haven't cracked. It is just the creaking that slightly bothers me. Ajax123 cheers for that I didn't even realise Amitco or Karndean existed so will bear this in mind for next time.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Obviously my reply doesn't warrant an answer!

 

[kilty55]

hi there,i dont think you will be entitled to a new floor to be honest but thats just my opinion,it seems from what you have said that you employed a kitchen fitter and not a tiler to carry out the worknot saying a kitchen fitter doesnt know how to tile as some of them do but its not really his main trade is it.

also if you supplied 6mm ply and this guy didnt even want to lay it that should have sent alarm bells going,tiles havent cracked or grout cracked just a slight creak in one area ...that doesnt warrant a new floor...the guy might just turn round and say there was no creak when he laid it? you cant argue against that

i do agree though the only way to resolve this creak is to remove the offending tiles....however if you have spares and the current 6mm ply install hasnt failed you could lift the offending area and remove the ply and also chipboard,,,add strengthening and re sheet and re tile and use a 6mm cement sheet instead it might just solve the issue do you have any spares or can you get spares? let us know cheers

 

[benson]

hi there,i dont think you will be entitled to a new floor to be honest but thats just my opinion,it seems from what you have said that you employed a kitchen fitter and not a tiler to carry out the worknot saying a kitchen fitter doesnt know how to tile as some of them do but its not really his main trade is it.

also if you supplied 6mm ply and this guy didnt even want to lay it that should have sent alarm bells going,tiles havent cracked or grout cracked just a slight creak in one area ...that doesnt warrant a new floor...the guy might just turn round and say there was no creak when he laid it? you cant argue against that

i do agree though the only way to resolve this creak is to remove the offending tiles....however if you have spares and the current 6mm ply install hasnt failed you could lift the offending area and remove the ply and also chipboard,,,add strengthening and re sheet and re tile and use a 6mm cement sheet instead it might just solve the issue do you have any spares or can you get spares? let us know cheers

Yeah that seems fair enough. On the one hand I'm a little dissapointed that its creaking but then I don't know if I'm being unfair in relation to my expectations of what can be acheived on a chipboard floor. In relation to the comments on him not being a professional tiler, this is a service that he advertises in addition to kitchens so on this basis a normal lay person such as myself would assume that he is a professional tiler.

My kitchen's only small so taking up just a section probably isn't worth it. I think I'll just learn to live with it and perhaps just accept it as a lesson learnt in relation to tiling and possibly look at the alternatives that have been suggested.

 

[benson]

From the first sentence of your second paragraph, I read it that the kitchen fitter did the tiling of your kitchen floor.
If this is the case then I doubt that you have any comeback whatsoever as his lack of knowledge and preparation of substrate is totally unacceptable, and your terminology that he is a professional fitter can not be used in the context of the tiling element involved.

Noted thanks

 

[jstrats]

I think your floor could fail eventually if it's creaking, keep an eye on the tile that is above the creaking, if the grout starts cracking then you know that's the start of the failure.

 

[Perfect Tiling]

As you have probably gathered from all the answers you have been given...the floor should not have been tiled onto 6mm ply and it should have had any creaks/weaknesses eliminated prior to work commencing. If the tiles are not cracked and still appear to be stuck down is there any way of getting under the floor to strengthen it? If you have a sufficient space under the floor (I'm assuming it is downstairs with it being a kitchen) is there a hatch or the possibility of creating a hatch elsewhere in the house so that work can be done under the floor to put in props. We often get the carpenter to go under and prop a floor if an island is to be put into a kitchen or when worktops are to be granite etc as this increases the weight on a floor dramatically.