Issues with Weber.Set Rapid SPF

[JohnnyT]

I've had major issues with Weber.set Rapid SPF on a series of jobs that were installed from December 2009 through to February 2010 that only started showing up 6-12 months after installation.
I have already started to collect some info from other people who have had the same issue and would like to know if anyone on here has had similar issues
Upon inspection we have found that the floor adhesive has debonded from the floor tiles.
In all cases the common denominator appears to be an adhesive failure as
-the plywood and sub floor (12mm Ply screwed and glued c/w expansion gaps) is sound
-the floors have been laid be three different tilers employed by ourselves
-some floors have had UTH and some floors have not
-it has happened with different tile ranges
As would be expected the manufacturer are blaming everything and everyone apart from the adhesive and assure me that they have had no other issues other than the one experienced by myself.
Can anyone tell me if they've had the same issues?
I'd appreciate the help as you would not believe the costs that have been incurred in rectifying these issues!

 

[Gazzer]

Contamination of the ply ?(which is too thin IMO and BS agree)

 

[TrumpersUnited]

Have you any pictures?

I've used weber spf for years and never had a problem.

Did you prime?

Leave movement joints?

Gain 100% coverage?

 

[DHTiling]

Have you not contacted weber over this..?

I have to say i laid a floor with this yesterday.. first time i have used it as well and i thought it was as sticky as toffee..

 

[aph257]

Welcome to TF, i too have used it approx 4 times this year and had no problems (yet). please can you put soem pics on so we can see whats happened?

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

:welcome:

 

[Ian]

Welcome along, hope you can resolve your problem

 

[kilty55]

i had this issue about 7 months ago with it,done 4 bathroosm with it.

the entire floor de bonded as well luckily i managed to save the tiles
the adhesive was poor and crumbly when i checked it on the wall on another job so i changed addy.

contacted the supplier not weber...who had a supposed blazing argument with the weber rep and iw as reimbursed with another make off addy and also more cement boards due to wastage

not sure if it was a bad batch but i dont want to re try it again so in answer to your question yes they have been made aware of it.

pm me if you like i will give you my company details and where the complaint was made

 

[faithhealer]

welcome to tf

 

[White Room]

Hi and welcome

 

[faithhealer]

a thread to keep an eye on if you could keep us posted Johnny, CTD sell boat loads of the stuff, used it myself on current job week

 

[doug boardley]

a new stockist in Kendal has offered my 4 bags to try out,,,,hmm, not sure wether to take him up on the offer now.

 

[Max@ableskills]

Contamination of the ply ?(which is too thin IMO and BS agree)

Agreed, should be min 15mm thick

 

[Olz]

a new stockist in Kendal has offered my 4 bags to try out,,,,hmm, not sure wether to take him up on the offer now.

Go for it Doug, never had any problems with it myself at all.

 

[Rich]

I have to say that I agree with sir ramic, I dont think you will get anywhere with weber as the ply is to thin. I dont like tiling straight on to ply if I can help it, I always over board with a cement board when I can.

Can you let us know how you get on?

 

[DHTiling]

Now if i recall correct.. Weber state you can use this adhesive onto 9mm ply.. anybody else been told this..🙂

 

[Rich]

Now if i recall correct.. Weber state you can use this adhesive onto 9mm ply.. anybody else been told this..🙂

Really? I stand corrected

 

[DHTiling]

I wouldn't though but i did hear tech guy say this at a CTD demo day.

 

[Gazzer]

From the Weber Bible.
Fix the over-boarding
For small floors with no noticeable deflection 9mm WBP plywood can be
used for over-boarding. If there is some limited deflection, a minimum of
15mm WBP plywood or equivalent tile backer board should be used. Prime the
back and edges of plywood with weber PR360. Lay the boards so that the
joints do not coincide with the joints in the existing timber and leave slight
gaps between boards and at the perimeter for expansion. Screw the plywood
or tile backer board to the floorboards every 200 - 300mm. Fill the gaps
between boards and the perimeter with weber SL450 Silicon sealant. If there
is still noticeable movement in the floor, another layer of plywood or tile
backer board may be needed.

 

[DHTiling]

Really? I stand corrected

From the adhesives pdf...

Tongued and grooved timber and chipboard
must be over-boarded. Existing boards
should be screwed down to joists with 2
screws at each end and another 2 wherever
they cross joists/noggins. For small floors
with no noticeable deflection 9 mm
plywood or suitable tile backer board can be
used to provide a smooth surface to tile. If
there is some limited deflection, a minimum
of 15 mm WBP plywood or equivalent tile
backer board should be used to increase the
rigidity of the floor. If

So there you go weber say 9mm..

 

[DHTiling]

Snap Neale..:lol:

 

[Rich]

Well Il be! Still dont think Id trust it to be honest.

 

[DHTiling]

Me neither..

 

[Rich]

Problem is that I bet you wouldnt stand a hope in hell at getting any money back if it went wrong. Mapei are now selling a fix and gout tub addy for tiling directly over floor boards! I think Il just stick to what I know works...

Good old flour and water :lol:

 

[j long]

I`ve been tiling for 17 years using various adhesives from bal to mapei to granfix and never had a problem. i was then introduced to weber as a superior product. thats where it all went wrong. after experiencing a major debonding of floor tiles in my own home, using weber rapid set plus with ad 250 polymer onto a wooden sub floor with under floor heating "that has never been turned on". the floor started to de bond. the area sales manager made a site visit and described the installation as being carried out with "belt and braces". this still has`nt helped matters. the floor is made up from 22mm soft wood floor boards over laid with 9 mm wpb ply, fixed down at 150mm centres. with no noticable deflection at all. i`ve had everything blamed apart from the gravitational pull of the moon for this problem. the previous floor that was laid, i pressume many years ago didnt have so much as a hair line crack to the grout joints. and yet excessive movement was blamed for it. then the fact that you can see trowel marks in 2 small areas in the adhesive was also blamed. although the tile still had full contact. it was then sudgested that i had used a spf adhesive along with the polymer, as the test results had shown such high polymer readings. this wasnt the case. had i used the levels of polymer that weber are sudgesting the adhesive would of been more like liquid and un workable. so if your looking advice on using weber. DONT. in my opinion, with my experience i consider their product to be as good as their after sales care. as it appears theres no issues at all with the weber product.

 

[GettinLaid]

Hi guys

I’ve followed up this post with Weber directly and sadly I have the following news: DO NOT USE WEBER PRODUCTS. ESPECIALLY THIS ADHESIVE. They do not seem particularly confident in their product – not to the point that they are 100% sure it will not fail. I’ll explain - below is my email convo with Weber (blue is me and green is Weber):

Let’s see how confident you are in your products shall we 🙂

I was just about to buy 25 bags of your adhesive, rapid SPF, grey. Until I noticed this forum, where a few other professional tilers have had issues with it: (went on to quote complaints from this post)

Let me be clear on this: I am a professional tiler with 18 years experience in the trade, and I’ve taken every precaution to prepare the surface well beyond standard. Belt n braces if you like. I’ll be laying porcelain tiles (exterior) onto SBR as well as fibre modified screed which has been mixed in a ratio of 1.5 parts sharp sand to 1 part Portland. This screed has been sealed and primed with 1 part SBR to 2 parts Portland, then self-levelled (again with SBR and fibre modified self leveling compound). And it will be primed again with SBR-cement primer, just before tiling. In short: there is no way at all that anything in this system can fail. It’s hard as a rock and 100% watertight.

Now, considering that I’m about to lay 100m[SUP]2[/SUP] of eye wateringly expensive tiles for my client: before even considering using your product, I need you to guarantee me that this adhesive will not fail at any point. If the tiles pop off the adhesive or the adhesive debonds from the primed self leveling at any point, will you be prepared to redo the job, or 100% financially compensate for the job having to be redone?

Depending on the size of the tiles and the fixing method the weber.set rapid SPF is suitable for the application you have mentioned. A solid bed method of fixing is required for all flooring and external applications. If the adhesive is applied to our instructions on the data sheet we are happy to guarantee the product for 10 years.

You didn’t answer my question. Ok so you guarantee your product for 10 years, but thats just your product. And if in 2 years it all breaks up, the last thing I’ll need is another stack of inferior adhesive or a refund for the measly portion of the job total that the adhesive cost - what I need is you guys to redo the job. Completely. Including all materials. Are you that confident in your product that you’d be prepared to guarantee it to this point, in writing?

And there’s more too. I can keep quoting problems which others have experienced with your product and after sales service for some time if I need to. But I don’t think that I need to go there. A lot of people have been having serious problems with your product, and although you say you guarantee for 10 years, this is far from the after sales service that these people have experienced. I can do without the incompetency and any-excuse blame game you guys seem to play when it all goes wrong. And I can also make sure that all other tillers using the internet know what’s really going on and avoid the same situation.

If it is proved to be a material failure then we are happy to cover the cost of the materials.

What EXACTLY do you mean by materials? The adhesive alone? So I’ll still be stuck with a massive cost and undertaking in redoing the whole job on account of your product failure, should this happen? You have to be kidding me.

We would guarantee our products, they are very high quality and manufactured to rigorous testing. if the product is causing you concern before using it, it may be worth looking elsewhere for a solution.

Already done. Mapei does guarantee to replace the entire job should their product fail. And I know how to read between the lines. You’re not particularly confident in your product. If it was good enough for the job you’d have no trouble at all guaranteeing to redo the job since, as you say, this will never need to happen. Good to know, as I’m sure the other tilers will agree.



‘Nuff said.