It must be monday....

[stusgsx]

Turned up to this job this morning. Customer has "tanked" the room with N&C wet room kit but the membrane has not been stuck to the floor at all and then it has had warmup boards stuck on top badly and big bits missing and look at the overlapping wires. Nice! Told them its got to come up.

 

[PuPPeT]

like they say.wanna job done.....do it urself.thats all u need on a monday morning.

 

[Dan]

Oh dear!

So the customer's done all this themselves and then wanted you to tile over it all?

 

[stusgsx]

Yep!
The red membrane is not stuck down at all. I could pull the whole floor up if I lift the membrane.
The thermal boards have been slapped down roughly and not supported in the corners and are lifting with and without the membrane and then we have the ufh which will surely burn out if left like this anyway.
I'm cracking on with the walls today instead

 

[Dan]

It definitely needs pulling up. I wonder where the customers seeked the advice to do it like that?!

 

[Ian]

They should have read my UFH step by step installation guide!


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[John Benton]

They should have read my UFH step by step installation guide!


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They should Bri, it clearly states, 'MAKE SURE YOU OVERLAP WIRES AT REGULAR INTERVALS' so as to cause maximum damage and ultimate failure of UFH. Doesn't it say that on every install manual :mad2:

 

[Dan]

For future reference that article is here: Tiling Forum - Installing electric underfloor heating - Step by Step Guide

 

[stusgsx]

Maybe I should print that off and give it to the customer!
Floor is being taken up this evening apparently.
I won't hold my breath that it's going to be perfect though

 

[paul flight]

why do these people think they can save a few quid and do it . a 10 year old that can read instructions would have done better ahhhhhhhhhh

 

[stusgsx]

OK little update!
Apparently the sparky came round last night and said there is nothing he can do about the wires overlapping and that it will be fine!

The membrane has been taken up in the shower area and stuck down but it's probably not waterproof now.
The rest of the floor has been left unstuck oh except for I now have a section of 12.5 pb put in the gap where there was no warmup board!

I've told them I'm not guaranteeing any of the floor and they said that's fine.

Am I doing the right thing or should I refuse to do it?

 

[Dan]

The underfloor heating wot be fine with cables overlapping. And water + electric? I'd rather not guess the outcome myself.

I would refuse to do it on the grounds that it's been prepared really poorly. Surely only a days work to put it right?


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[stusgsx]

I've told them the floor has to come up but it seems they just are not bothered that it's going to fail.

The ufh kit is far too big for this room so I bet the sparky told them that but they didn't want to buy a smaller kit.

What a nightmare

 

[ishi69]

Have you been paid for this job yet, do you trust the customer cos if it was me I'd be off. He seems not to really care about the work at all so there's probably a good chance he's not going to be to bothered about paying you.

 

[Olz]

If you've already started walls, finish them and get paid for them, tell them to do floor themselves or get someone else.

Tell them to slc floor and lay some lino over it whilst they run uhf for a few months, tell them no point in tiling it as ill be more for them to remove when it burns out over the next month,

 

[stusgsx]

No not been paid and no cant say I do trust them.

Even the warmup boards are lifting from the membrane now. Has anyone used this N&C stuff before?

Here is a pic of the shower area now lol!

I'm going to refuse to touch the floor. I've got plenty of other work I can be getting on with this week. Now will they get upset or will they understand....

 

[ruairi mac]

Hi Stusgsx,

Mate I would give them one last chance to put the thing right, Explain to them as clear as day that the only thing that you can guarantee with this floor is that it will fail. Explain why it will fail and how it will fail. If you can, show them the installation guide of the matt where it says Do Not Overlap Wires!! Tell them that companies produce these guides so that their products will work properly.
If you now reckon that the area isn't waterproof, explain the possible outcomes of a leaking wet room to them and what would be involved to put it right. I'd also ask them how much they spent on tanking kit, warm up boards and UFH, when they tell you how much, tell them they may as well had thrown the cash in the fire because none of it is going to work for them.
Its ok saying that you will finish the walls and ask them to sort the floor themselves but if you're not 100% sure about these people I would be concerned. If did you finish walls and not do the floor, are they going to be happy enough to pay you just for the walls and let you pack up or will they turn around and say, yes you have done the walls but you agreed to do the floor before the job started and we're not giving you a penny until the floors done??
I don't like being negative about customers because 99% of them are great but it only takes one to start telling people that my tiler came and started the job and wouldn't finish it etc. At the end of the day you have to look out for your reputation, my dad always told me, You cant buy a reputation, it has to be earned. And in my opinion its too hard earned to have someone run yours down when its them that are in the wrong!!
Do your best to talk some sense into them and I hope you get it sorted mate. keep us posted.

 

[CJ]

Walk away from the floor............they WILL phone you when it goes belly up.

 

[stusgsx]

I had a good talk to the bloke earlier and explained that the floor will 100% fail because of the membrane not being stuck down at all and not has cuts all over the place so will also not be waterproof. Plus the ufh will fail anyway.
He seemed to take it all in and was with me that it's all a big mess and that he will speak with his mother the owner of the house.
Now he has just come in and said they are going to take up the membrane in the shower area and just use the liquid waterproofing on that part of the floor!
Then I said what about the rest of the floor and he said he thinks it will be ok as the tiles are heavy!
I said no they won't be ok and they will crack all over the place and he just shrugged it off!
Think the best option is to Pack everything up and call the owner tonight and see if I can drum it into her.

 

[kilty55]

hi,i would complete the walls and deduct the floor cost from the bill and walk away mate

 

[Tony73]

same as kilty55 . finish walls and walk away

 

[stusgsx]

Well I called the lady on the Tue night and explained that I'm not prepared to tile the floor how it is and that it all has to be taken up and done again. She agreed after I had told her about the problems she would get if I did tile it.
I have not been back since as I am going to wait for the floor to be re done and then visit the site before I go back to check it is all correct.

 

[stusgsx]

Got this email today from customer.
I give up!

"I have checked out you concerns with the Co I purchased the tanking from they
have confirmed the following and sent Data sheets to confirm

Red membrane sheet is coated and therefore should not be stuck down with adhesive
but laid loose and edges sealed with tanking paint.

Also the thermal board under the heating cannot be placed under the WC it needs a firmer
board due to the weight of the wc which would crush the standard thermal board.

Th electrician has been out to the flooring and assured me that the mat will not burn out

Obviously the above goes against all the concerns you raised, I want the tiling to go ahead on the floor
and take full responsibility therefore should the floor fail and the resonsibility will remain with me."

 

[stusgsx]

But this screen shot is from N&C's website

 

[peteablard]

Personally I wouldn't touch it. Regardless of what they say you'll be in the firing line when it goes wrong. Get paid for what you've done, leave your contact details and when someone else does it and it goes wrong you can you and do it again from scratch the way it should be done!