Know all builders!

[area tiling]

Tiling onto a 22m2 green chipboard floor upstairs , told the customer it would be advisable to overboard with either some form of backer board or plywood , for extra strength, it would be more moisture resistant and peace of mind! When the builder heard this he said the usual rubbish , tiler doesn't know what he's talking about , they don't understand this new green chipboard ! Lol
Fact of the matter is that builder is in a hurry as usual, and that he doesn't want to be eating into anymore of his profits!!
Am not saying that you can't tile onto these green chipboard floors , but I don't want to be going back to repair any work so ill always do it right first time around!!

Question , ? Anyone else have these problems ?

 

[Spud]

Too often these days

 

[Protilers]

you are not alone.......but what do we know?

 

[Alan M]

this happens in every trade. some clown thinks he knows better. then he undermines you and makes you look like you know nothing or are out to money grab.
you are best to walk away and saw nothing infront of the customer then talk to them on your own. most will see that you are trying to help them and are willing to pay the little bit extra

 

[kilty55]

direct your customer here well soon put them right

 

[White Room]

Some plumbers can be just as bad from my experiance....

 

[Dougs Third Go]

tbh, backer boards don't add "extra strength" but they give a more suitable substrate to tile onto. A builder actually rang me today to ask what level the new floor should meet existing floor on an extension as he was aware that I'm a bit pedantic ( he actually said "anal" lol) about where and how to cover chipboard.

 

[charlie1]

Here is the problem I find with lots of tilers / builders, because they have done it in the past and the floor was still intact when they where leaving the customers cheque in hand, these cowboys have a reinforced feeling of "thats was a good job".... then 2 years pass.... they never get a call back....there feeling of "that was a good job" is growing day by day!.... meanwhile back at the ranch, floors are cracking, customers are just thinking "oh my grout is needing redone!, I shall call local tiler as this must be normal after 2 years"... some people have a very shortminded vision of a tiled floor, imo, a tiled floor should really last forever, not 3-5 years or even shorter.... you will never educate these idiots, they know better as they do it all the time!!!.....sorry, needed a rant!!

 

[Colour Republic]

tbh, backer boards don't add "extra strength" but they give a more suitable substrate to tile onto. A builder actually rang me today to ask what level the new floor should meet existing floor on an extension as he was aware that I'm a bit pedantic ( he actually said "anal" lol) about where and how to cover chipboard.

I was going to point that out myself but i'm a builder so what do I know?

 

[area tiling]

Really annoys me , was even questioning myself, but i guess ive got a conscious the customer seems a good person , but she's getting nudged in the wright direction! I've now lost out on the job as the builder has told her some rubbish that he has tiling priced into the job and his tiler has no worries tiling onto the green board !

 

[Dougs Third Go]

I was going to point that out myself but i'm a builder so what do I know?

Rob, you'll know it's all down to eliminating deflection, plenty of noggins or dwangs in sub-floor usuallys does the trick:8:

 

[Dougs Third Go]

Really annoys me , was even questioning myself, but i guess ive got a conscious the customer seems a good person , but she's getting nudged in the wright direction! I've now lost out on the job as the builder has told her some rubbish that he has tiling priced into the job and his tiler has no worries tiling onto the green board !

better him doing it than you then, as one day it will bite him big style in the backside. keep your conscience clear and your reputation will stand you in good stead.

 

[Colour Republic]

Really annoys me , was even questioning myself, but i guess ive got a conscious the customer seems a good person , but she's getting nudged in the wright direction! I've now lost out on the job as the builder has told her some rubbish that he has tiling priced into the job and his tiler has no worries tiling onto the green ****board !

:rofl: So the builder thought you were talking rubbish because his TILER has told him it's all good, oh dear so it wasn't really the builders fault but a tilers duff info... who'd of thought???

Sorry, all trades have crap tradesmen and it's natural for one to moan about the other it's been happening since the dawn of time. I normally take the 'Damn builder' threads on the chin but earlier this year I had a nightmare getting hold of a decent tiler after I couldn't personally fit it in. The ones I knew could do the job were busy of course, then it was down to ringing around the locals and after chatting to dozens of supposed tilers I dismised them all because of what they said... or rather what they didn't say, then I got a recommendation from a large tile manufacturer, used that tiler then had to kick them off site becuase of the mess they were making even after saying I wanted a top job and willing to pay twice the going rate which is often discussed on here. In the end a tiler from the other end of the country did the the job for me. I could of started a ton of 'damn tiler' threads but that would be pointless on a forum where it's full of tilers who are clearly passionate about their trade but let me tell you some of us builders find it bloody hard finding a decent tiler!

 

[White Room]

:rofl: So the builder thought you were talking rubbish because his TILER has told him it's all good, oh dear so it wasn't really the builders fault but a tilers duff info... who'd of thought???

Sorry, all trades have crap tradesmen and it's natural for one to moan about the other it's been happening since the dawn of time. I normally take the 'Damn builder' threads on the chin but earlier this year I had a nightmare getting hold of a decent tiler after I couldn't personally fit it in. The ones I knew could do the job were busy of course, then it was down to ringing around the locals and after chatting to dozens of supposed tilers I dismised them all because of what they said... or rather what they didn't say, then I got a recommendation from a large tile manufacturer, used that tiler then had to kick them off site becuase of the mess they were making even after saying I wanted a top job and willing to pay twice the going rate which is often discussed on here. In the end a tiler from the other end of the country did the the job for me. I could of started a ton of 'damn tiler' threads but that would be pointless on a forum where it's full of tilers who are clearly passionate about their trade but let me tell you some of us builders find it bloody hard finding a decent tiler!

But the average customer would'nt know what question are wrong or right and follows the advise given through the builder, I now occasionally go on a plastering forum and it's the same there and I should imagine it's the same with any forums.

 

[Colour Republic]

But the average customer would'nt know what question are wrong or right and follows the advise given through the builder, I now occasionally go on a plastering forum and it's the same there and I should imagine it's the same with any forums.

That's the point though. How is the builder supposed to know? His normal tiler tells him all is good so he takes that knowledge and passes it on to the HO. It's incorrect but it's came from a 'tiler' first.

You'll be suprised at some of the things i was told by tilers when I was looking and all of them would bleat on about how long they've been in the game, I don't care how long you've been doing it, you've been doing it wrong. If I didn't decided to educate myself which of course some of it is down to this very forum and the info i've read and put in to practice over the years has been invaluable! But if I was your run of the mill builder who doesn't seek further education and relied on tradesmen around me then i'd be stuffed!

 

[charlie1]

That's the point though. How is the builder supposed to know? His normal tiler tells him all is good so he takes that knowledge and passes it on to the HO. It's incorrect but it's came from a 'tiler' first.

You'll be suprised at some of the things i was told by tilers when I was looking and all of them would bleat on about how long they've been in the game, I don't care how long you've been doing it, you've been doing it wrong. If I didn't decided to educate myself which of course some of it is down to this very forum and the info i've read and put in to practice over the years has been invaluable! But if I was your run of the mill builder who doesn't seek further education and relied on tradesmen around me then i'd be stuffed!

what suprised you about things the average tilers said....??

 

[White Room]

That's the point though. How is the builder supposed to know? His normal tiler tells him all is good so he takes that knowledge and passes it on to the HO. It's incorrect but it's came from a 'tiler' first.

You'll be suprised at some of the things i was told by tilers when I was looking and all of them would bleat on about how long they've been in the game, I don't care how long you've been doing it, you've been doing it wrong. If I didn't decided to educate myself which of course some of it is down to this very forum and the info i've read and put in to practice over the years has been invaluable! But if I was your run of the mill builder who doesn't seek further education and relied on tradesmen around me then i'd be stuffed!

I agree Rob, Things are changing so fast I would'nt want to be coming into the building game now.....before long you'll need a degree in astro physics to put a floor down......

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

ok a builder told me this is green chip board tongh and groved and srewed down now fix on it i told him i need to over board this he said this will be ok i said ok put that in writing and date it so he did well i new what was going to happen and thought well some times there only way to teach a lesson as i had also told the client what would happen but he argreed with the builder so i tiled it heating came on this was a new build every join cracked in line with the joins on the floor this was a marble 20m2 well had to take it all up and lay again the whole bathroom had to come out cost over £8000 to put right in all .the client made sure i got paid and apoligised for not taking my advise in the first place .

 

[Protilers]

my favorite saying......wait for it....."builders work in feet and inches...tilers work in milimeters".....

 

[Colour Republic]

what suprised you about things the average tilers said....??

All sorts of things.

Some wanting to quote over the phone.
Some wanting to tile over contracting flooring, even when offered tile backer boards as a solution said no it would be fine.
Asked if they were confident with stone and being told they where specialists then tried to convince me a nice big fat 20mm trim would look lovely in the trav and slate bathrooms, some even told me it was impossible to bull nose stone.
Adhesive selections was wrong.
No offer of tanking in the showers.
One of the companies that I did think were all right I got to come out and see the job, I wasn't on site but once I got their price I knew it was far too cheap for them to make any sort of decent job of it, the timescale they had allowed themselves would have meant rushing. I wouldn't be surprised if after I knocked them back they thought 'Typical builder doesn't want to pay even though we went in cheap' Truth is my budget was twice what they quoted.
The guy who was recommended and I got to start the job then sent out a subbie who refused to check the slate before laying, saying it was an unreasonable request, when challenged by the HO on some chipped edges on the honed slate he just cut, turned round and said 'It's stone mate, what do you expect?" He even complained that the slate was so thick that he was going to have to wet cut them all and he didn’t have time for that. WTF did he expect?

These are typical of the responses I got when ringing around so I never even let most of them through the door to quote and believe me I gave them detailed descriptions of the tiles and the conditions on site.

We all know as I’ve said there are some bad tradesmen out there, we all know there are builders out there who only look at the bottom line. That can't be disputed. But sometimes I think builders can be forgiven for their lack of knowledge and not wanting to go along with what tilers suggest when they've been working with some of the 'tilers' I rang around. It wasn't just the odd one who didn't know what they were doing it was a lot of them! I even gave them the opportunity to give a decent price, all of them were told don't quote on price, quote on quality because that's what I want. I've no doubt that some of the tilers I rang produce nice looking work, if they had a website I looked at the pictures. But we all know getting the tiles straight and level is only a tiny part of it and it's what is underneath them that is just as important.

I'm not having a dig at tilers here, you wouldn't be here if you didn't care or want to do the job correctly. But spare a thought for some of the builders that have been educated by poor tilers, even when like me, they weren't asking for cheap rush jobs.

Normally all tiling is done in-house but boy was I shocked when I went looking for someone new.

 

[Colour Republic]

my favorite saying......wait for it....."builders work in feet and inches...tilers work in milimeters".....

Milimeters???? Ha! you cowboy

No room for error here Lee

rrr: rrr: rrr:

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[afright]

If that,s what the builder want,s then so be it ,but tell him it,s on his head if anything goes wrong all you can do is point them in the right direction and if they dont listen well its his problem,I always ask them to put it in writing before I start sometimes they end up taking your advice.not that Ive had many, I find a lot of builders do have some tiling knowledge

 

[John Benton]

my favorite saying......wait for it....."builders work in feet and inches...tilers work in milimeters".....

And that is why we the economy is in the state it is in.....................wait for it.


Many years ago two separate teams of rocket scientists at two locations in America wanted two rockets/space stations to physically meet up in space. Anyway all the calculations were made but they never met up.

Reason being, one of the teams was working in miles and the other was working in kilometres. :mad2:

Years later these rocket scientists were asked to do all the calculations for the big banks for lending money for all these sub-prime mortgages that were being given to customers, which obviously had a world-wide effect as America generally take the lead in most things. And we all know what happened next.

So when somebody say's it isn't rocket science, they are probably right - It's a lot more complicated than that!!!!!

 

[prceramics]

I always tell the customer to do there own research to back up what i tell them .

 

[Bubblecraft]

This is why I do everything myself. Never needed to tile on a substrate that has been prep'd by someone else. Kinda lucky that way but can understand why this can totally mess you guys around.