Minimum Day Rate/Sqm

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DEN

What does anybody think should be the minimum day rate/sqm rate for a newbie tiler just starting out.I know you have to try and drum up business somehow and not really undercut too much,just wanted your thoughts on this,and what did you charge when you first started out,any advice appreciated..
 
Sorry for reusing old material, but I'm feeling a bit worn at the moment 🙂

Here's a post I made on a very similar topic some time ago:

Another lengthy sWe post coming up!

I don't believe you can have linear pricing if you want to have a steady income. One price per m2 which is just right for, say, bathrooms, is probably completely off when quoting kitchens, or really large terrazos, etc.

It comes down to the following:

¤How long is the job going to take? Smaller jobs take proportionally more time than larger jobs.
¤How difficult will it be?
¤How much do you want to make in the end?
¤Can you remain competative with the derived pricing?

I have no idea what reasonable pricing in the UK is, or how your tax system works, but stay with me, ok? Here follows a simplified description of the pricing modell I would use if I worked for myself. You may need to modify it a bit for your conditions.



Tally the static expenses relating to your business an average year. These include tool purchases/repairs, trade insurance, tax and maintenance on your vechicle, etc.

Divide the sum by the number of months you work an average year.

Add what you need to make in an average month to have a reasonable standard of living, including tax.

If you plan on taking a vacation lasting, say, a month, make sure to add a months salary divided by the number of months you work an average year.

Lets say, for demonstrational purposes, that the sum you come up with is £2000.

Here's a kicker: Not all your work is spent on things you can charge for. Unpaid time includes doing paperwork, meeting customers, etc.
You need to take this into account.

Say you spend 80% of you working time on things which you can charge for.
Divide £2000 by 0,80 (80%). The result is £2500.
Divide £2500 by the number of days you work an average month (22 for a 5 day week in an average month).
The result is that you need to make £113 a day if you work five days a week, of which 80% of the time is on things which pay, to earn £2000 in a month.

You have to put your pricing in relation to this, as well as the going rates on the market. A day-rate of £130 seems to be common when reading on these forums. If this is the case where you live, and the £113/day applies to you, then all is well, and if you manage to consistently get £130 a day, then you'll end up with a £375 profit every month. That's almost 19%.

If the local day-rate is lower than the £113 you need, you need to either cut your expenses, or increase the amount of time you work on things you can charge for.



Anyways.

Lets say you got hired to do a 3m2 kitchen splashback. Lets say it takes you one working day to complete it. If you charge 130$ for it, not counting materials, that's a m2 price a little shy of £44.

For comparison, lets say you got hired to do a bathroom with a total of 25m2 tiling to be done, and you need to fix the substrate. Lets say it takes you four days to complete. If you charge £130x4 for it, not including materials, that gives you £520, and a m2 price of about £21.


Had you charged £20/m2 + materials for a bathroom (£500), as you stated in your original post, it would've been about right from the economical standpoint we calculated earlier in this post.

Had you charged £20/m2 + materials (£60) for the kitchen splashback, you'd be losing money from the economical standpoint we calculated earlier in this post.


See what I meant about linear pricing being a tad off?

I'd also add percentage for the difficulty level of the job, as you want more pay for hard jobs than you do for easy work.



Any comments?

Cheers.



Bottom line is, even though you are a newbie, you still need to get paid. Undercutting too much is bad for everyone, m'kay?

If I were in your situation, I might've priced my work slightly lower than the area's average, but most importantly, I'dve focused on doing top notch jobs. Lower pricing means you have to work faster to earn a living, and that, more often than not, equals shortcuts, which tend to lower the quality of your work. Good craftsmanship at a fair price, is a better "commodity" than crap craftsmansship at a "starvin'-marvin-couldn't-live-off-this-unless-he-works-18-hours-a-day-7-days-a-week"-price.

Good craftsmanship markets itself, through satisfied customers. Crap worksmanship does the same, but faster, and wider, and loses you more future customers than a good rep could possibly gain you in the same amount of time time. A good rep takes a long time to earn, and it is lost so easily. Bad reps can take years to repair, if it at all possible without moving to another city.

Price your work in such a way that you can live off it without taking ugly shortcuts. You need to be able to afford to build a good rep. That is your foremost priority, is it not?

/Cheers

(edit: added a few things in my commentary)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Be careful of coming in too low.

Customers often perceive a low price with poor quality workmanship.

It's slightly perverse but customers may well employ someone to carry out work for the very fact that they weren't the cheapest.
 
Hi Den alot would agree that £100 is the minimum u wud not get out of bed or mucky tools for less.

As a person is starting out do ur research in the local area see what others are charging and then qoute accordingly

That doesn't mean u should work for less than wot a job is worth. It is all about being creative

Den the biggest thing u have to appreciate is these tilers that have been at it years and years r able to turn things around very quickly

Hence they can afford to go in cheap where as a reletively new comer to the industry may take 2 days to complete a job the time served chap may b able to ocmplete 2 in the same day

All about trial and error after a few quotes u will get a feel of how to qoute in ur own way rather some one elses.

I work very different to many myself usually qoute too much or too little some times it pays off some times it doesnt all a learning kerb

All the best Raja
 
Sound advice there raja,i will take all these things on board,i am in the early days of a tiling career,doing course soon,might be absolutely crap at it!!,but i like to get a feel for things as i am an all or nothing person,who likes to know the ins and outs of a fart and which way the stink blows,and am basically trying to prepare myself in the best way possible to make a start in a tiling career,if i think my work is good enough i certainly would'nt undervalue that by charging a lot less just to get the job,as you say does'nt really work like that,and i certainly would not get out of bed for less than it was worth,although with my current job i do it out of necessity.Like everything else it is a learning curve,but the advice on here is second to none,and thanks again for your response..:thumbsup:
 
i agree with Raja and something else to consider is giving yourself enough time on doing a job and not booking anything too close to when you estimate you will be fininshed the first job as you will be putting yourself under pressure.
 
Yes,well said brian c and of course first impressions last so obviously your first job should be done really well,take your time and keep the customer happy,again more sound advice from the pro's
cheers brian..
 
Actually i would work for almost any price as i believe in keeping busy. If i was out of work and someone offered £60 for a small job i would do it. Bills to pay and mouths to feed etc.
I wouldnt be interested in working my nuts of for that money on a regular basis but every little bit helps.
 

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