Natural Stone on MDF...........

[aflemi]

Thought that would get some attention.....................

I have been asked to help fit out a new natural stone tile showroom and the wall display boards are framed 12.5mm mdf. They're about 2.5sqm each and will be screwed to a concrete wall. Obviously this is an unusual arrangement so I want to be sure what to be wary of, naturally I would not tile anything straight onto MDF, never mind heavy stone up to 15mm thick.
I plan to sbr prime then use non rapidset cement-based addy. Reason is that there will be a lot of cuts, and he wants unusual designs on the panels so I can't be rushing to do cuts before the addy goes off. Should this be ok? My worry is the weight of the stone tears the top surface of the mdf off, am I worrying unnecessarily? Bearing in mind this is a new retail outlet and lots of recommendations to customers if the owner is happy. :hurray:

 

[diamondtiling]

most shop display panels are glued on with a hot melt gun for speed and the ability to pop them off the panel and start afresh, you are framing your tiles in with supports, ie the frame,
I would think that you may be ok with a glue on light tiles but on heavy tiles I would prefer to fix a piece of hardi backer for piece of mind.

 

[aflemi]

Can't add any more thickness, the frame overlaps mdf by 10mm. They are happy that the displays will be up for a few years, they are double sided, so tiles can be removed, displays unscrewed from wall and the other side used. Owner was talking about gripfilling the tiles on, although I've never used hot glue gun, it does sound a lot easier........... What do you reckon re adhesive, will it tear off the top layer of MDF?

 

[peckers]

I tiled the tile viniettes for original style a few years ago they were all mdf, it was the moisture resistant one though, and i gave it a good coat of primer first, these had stone and slate on them never had a problem
I have tiled alot of showroom displays over the years, most of the walls have been melamine faced chipboard with a 1000 weight lining paper(yes wall paper) then i have tiled directly onto the WALL PAPER with slate, stone large format 1200x 300 etc! Now i defo wouldnt do this in a house,
The first time i was aked to do this i laughed :lol: then they told me the whole shop was done like this and they had been doing it this way for years and not had a problem,
then i done a few more show room displays and they were all done the same way!
The floors to be tiled are usually covered in a black builders paper to stop the adhesive sticking to the floors.
The idea behind this is so as they can change the displays with out having to much trouble to remove the old ones,
ive never had a problem with them falling off !!!

and i used spf and flexible grout on all of them...

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Some of the glue guns are very good for display work but I wouldn't consider a natural stone of 15mm thick being fixed onto MDF with it!
Prime your surface and when dry use a skim coat of fast set flexible adhesive to prepare the surface. Allow to dry - 2hours- then fix tiles with same adhesive - put in all full tiles first with fast set flexible (less chance for moisture content to affect MDF).

 

[DHTiling]

Some stones do not adhere well to glue gun adhesive....

Timeless johns method is what i would do for displays.

 

[Stephen@Weber]

I've done displays and sample boards, you could always use hot melt for an initial grab and then someting like FW Balls F3 which is essentially a very strong glue, believe me you would have to break the tiles off in little pieces, I've tried to rescue many a sample board with no success.

 

[Polishtradesman]

I would not use cement based adhesive (class C). For that better to use, polyurethane reaction resin adhesive (class R) Sopro PUK 503
(i am sorry i show you germans ones but it is explain in english there and you can find similar product on your market). Read description there and you will know everything.

 

[tfs]

I have done shop displays before mate.

if shop will not let you use adhesive and ply etc then best way is to use hot glue gun and use with silcone and glue on any tile above 30x30. (this is normaly what they request! and is common practice in showrooms even for large chains)

They need to keep the cost down mate and be able to re tile the same substrate.

In my experience plyu is better as the MDF gets ripped to shreds each time the tiles are removed.

If grouting, make sure there is no bounce in the board, as some places use metal framed displays sheeted with MDF with no noggins so there is a lot of bounce and the grout just cracks (even after on day) It isnt great trying to grout with just glue gun as there is a large void behind the tile due to no adhesive bed so grout may still crack, I would probably just confirm this with them though


hope this helps mate.

tile showroom should will understand cons of tiling with glue and mdf etc.

 

[aflemi]

I have done shop displays before mate.

if shop will not let you use adhesive and ply etc then best way is to use hot glue gun and use with silcone and glue on any tile above 30x30. (this is normaly what they request! and is common practice in showrooms even for large chains)

They need to keep the cost down mate and be able to re tile the same substrate.

In my experience plyu is better as the MDF gets ripped to shreds each time the tiles are removed.

If grouting, make sure there is no bounce in the board, as some places use metal framed displays sheeted with MDF with no noggins so there is a lot of bounce and the grout just cracks (even after on day) It isnt great trying to grout with just glue gun as there is a large void behind the tile due to no adhesive bed so grout may still crack, I would probably just confirm this with them though


hope this helps mate.

tile showroom should will understand cons of tiling with glue and mdf etc.

Cheers, display boards are all mdf but will be well screwed to wall. can you clarify what you mean when you say 'hot glue gun and use with silcone'?
These are all natural stone tiles and, apart from the mosaics, will be larger than 300sq. Can I ask what spec of glue you would recommend? Brand and more detail would be brilliant. I'm assuming much quicker to use than adhesive? Thanks a lot for help...........

 

[tfs]

I have just used glue sticks, no special brand.

When larger than 30x30 I put a dab of glue on four corners with a dab of silicon in the centre of the tile. The silicon gives good adhesion once set and the glue sets within 5-10 second when it comes into contact with the substrate so you dont get any play time mate. You need to get it right when you first put it on the wall.

I used my spirit level with nail under it told hold on the wall to ensure that the frist row of tiles where perfectly level. In most case I worked from top to bottome or visa versa.

Be prepared to burn yourself:lol: I got holes all over my finger if the gue drips on to your hand it burns like hell and the only thing you can do to help is blow on the glue to cool it down faster:mad2: I didnt waear gloves as I hate wearing them.


use a glue gun like this
Bosch PKP18E Glue Gun 240V - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys

and glue sticks like this
GLUE GUNS, GLUE STICKS, INDUSTRIAL GLUE GUNS, HOT MELT ADHESIVES

hope this helps mate

 

[aflemi]

great, so much faster than normal addy then, I assume as it's a perfectly flat surface I'm tiling onto, the levels are no prob, it's just the alignment that will need to be spot on. Would you still prime the mdf to help avoid tearing the top layers off....? Sorry for all questions but obviously all new to me glueing travertine etc. And the glue will stick to stone, just dampen them a bit I suppose?

 

[tfs]

The MDF will still rip to shreds whether you prime or paint. When they take tiles of it will damage the board and will probably need replaced after changing the tiles on display a few times. (the veneer on ply is stronger than the MDF)

I havent actualy fitted large format trav on mdf etc with glue. I have done porcelain and ceramic up to 60x60 and even 900 x 30 ceramic.

The largest stone I have done with these methods is 100x300 trav.

If you are doing mosaics it is much easier to use adhesive, i have done mosaic borders with glue and even then it can be tricky to get them perfectly straight with glue as it sets so fast. If you need to do an area of 1msq upward with mosaic try your best to get them to use tile adhesive.

Make sure that any facings around the board have been fitted square as this will allow you to make symetric equal size cuts. I have fitted on to some boards that have not been square and plumb etc and it can make you setting out look worse e.g. if you are fixing your tiles plumb and level and the board isnt standing plumb or the facing havent been fitted square then you may need to cut your bottom tiles up to a few mm in shorther or wider than the tiles on the top row.

 

[tommyzooom]

IIRC Bal Mosaic Fix is suitable for tiling over MDF (It's not just for mosaics either):smilewinkgrin: