Nervous taking this job on...

[Grace'sDad]

I have agreed the quote etc for a 15sqm 40x40 polished porcelain floor (black).

The floor is concrete with a mess of adhesive still down. I have insisted on levelling before tiling. I've also got to remove all the end panels from the units inc' central island, trim and replace.

My main concern is that the customer is studying for an Masters Degree in Interior Design and she has shown me a picture of what she is trying to achieve. Beautiful modern black gloss kitchen (must have cost £20k plus) with black polished floor.

It's obvious that the photo is of an American / European kitchen costing probably 10x more, with a properly honed and polished floor.

I have explained as best I can that even levelled, it may be impossible to achieve a 100% flat floor with no lipping whatsoever. I am a good, experienced floor tiler, but cannot hope to achieve the same results as a honing machine!

My gut instinct is that she will not be happy with anyting less than perfection, and while I do aim for perfection, we all know it's not always possible.

What can I do to cover myself? I have insisted on payment for tiles and materials upfront, and outlined all this in my quote.

Still I'm nervous and deep down I guess I hope the job goes away...

Any thoughts???

 

[grumpygrouter]

Hmmmmmm, big issue this. I have just done my first granite floor - black polished - and it didn't really go the way I wanted it to at all. From a personal basis I was quite disappointed with the results though I did work extremely hard to get everything "flat" there were areas of lipping! My customer seems delighted though and my cheque is on it's way.

Best thing you can do IMO is state on your estimate that a perfectly flat finish with these types of tiles is impossible due to the nature of production of the product. This gives her the choice to procede or not.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Grumpy

 

[dptiling]

bigger joints. although i dont like to do it. i prefere tight joints.
the only way is to mess about , and keep lifting them,to insure no liping.
i would have priced highly , more work more adhesive.
on the bright side easy to grout.

 

[Grace'sDad]

Thanks guys, I priced it high and am happy with the price.
I have done as suggested and re-sent the quote with a footnote explaining all this.

Lets see what happens.

If I pull this one off, I'll definitely post pics :ninja:

 

[DHTiling]

look forward to those pics mate............good luck.......

 

[JOHNNYCLARKE]

Im a limestone fixer and am used to fixing stone with no lips at all and I am quite pleased to see these porcelain tiles now on sale with sharp square edges.

The key point is you do not price this like you would a ceramic or porcelain that you can fix with a notched trowel, with a bit of bedding up where necessary.
You should price it as a stone/granite floor should be less the cost of sealing the floor if porcelain does not need sealing and some do!!!!

Believe me this type of fixing for polished porcelain is going to cause loads of problems for the average tiler .
It looks rubbish unless fixed perfectly and any tiler should be wary.

On the plus side if you can do it well you are in a minority and make this your priority and cut out competition.

It is designers who create this look and it is for the true professional to turn this vision into reality.

I havent done that much but have done a couple of 80sq mt floors in last month
and have learnt two thoings so far.

Dont suggest fixing large format tiles in brickbond pattern because the tiles themselves tend to be less flat over whole length the longer tile is.
Something to do with baking process which may explain why designers are turning to rectangles sitting on top of each other in modules.

If you have to bed up tiles alot to keep them perfectly flat, use a thickbed flexible adhesive that you know will not slump.
Pourable thickbeds are a waste of time.

get the right blade to cut porcelain as you will ruin a very good blade made for something else.
This whole porcelain business is taking tiling to another level and long may it continue!!!



Johnny

 

[Grace'sDad]

Johnny, thanks.

I have done these before and without a hitch. Good point about slump and wet adhesive thanks.

Any other tips and tricks would be appreciated by all though!

Talked my concerns through with my customer this evening and all is ok. She has seen some of my other floors and is happy to proceed.

(I like a challenge I do....)

 

[DHTiling]

Well done mate......make sure you get some pics for us lot to see...............

 

[JOHNNYCLARKE]

GREAT YOU GOT THE JOB.
THE ONLY THING IM NOT SURE ABOUT WITH PORCELAIN IS WHETHER IT SHOULD BE SEALED OR NOT.
THE GREAT SALES PITCH WAS THAT IT WAS INDESTRUCTABLE AND DIDNT NEED MAINTENANCE ETCC.
BUT LO AND BEHOLD THERES A WHOLE RANGE OF PORCELAIN SEALERS OUT NOW.
WHY IS THIS?.
WELL OBVIOUSLY , SOME OF THEM ARE PROBLEMATIC WITH STAINING BUT SUPPLIERS ARE PRETTY IGNORANT I THINK.

ONLY OTHER POINT IS THAT I WOULD NEVER SAY THAT IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GET A PERFECTLY FLAT FLOOR OWING TO TYPE OF TILE AS SOME OTHERS SUGGEST.
MOST THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THEY JUST NEED MORE TIME AND EFFORT TO ACHIEVE.

LAST POINT IS TO WATCH FOR ANY LIGHTS THAT THROW LIGHT ACROSS TILES.
THE LIGHTS THAT WASH FLOOR FROM ABOVE SKIRTING HEIGHT CAN BE REASONBLY FORGIVING BUT DOWNLIGHTERS 100MM OFF WALL IN CEILING ARE POTENTAIL DISASTERS.
i HAVE HAD THIS ON FIVE STONE ENSUITES A FEW YEARS BACK.
LIGHTS NOT COMMISIONJED WHEN I FIXED BUT WHEN THEY WERE TURNED ON, MY TILING LOOKED LIKE THE STEPPING OF STONES AT CAIRO PYRAMIDS
LUCKY FOR ME I COULD PUT A 2 METRE STARIGHT EDGE AGAINST ANY OF MY WORK AT ANY ANGLE ANT NOT EVEN I MM OUT, WHICH IS WELL WITHIN ANY TOLERANCE BUT IT STILL LOOKED TERRIBLE WITH CLOSE DOWNLIGHTERS ON.
CLIENT PAID ME TO GRIND WHOLE WALLS DOWN ALL BATHROOMS.
i HAVE SINCE WARNED TOP LIGHTING DESIGNERS AND THEY STILL DONT LISTEN.
IF YOU SEE THIS POTENTIAL FOR DISASTER FLAG IT UP.
IN HTIS INSTANCE YOU ARE WELL COVERED IF YOUR TILING IS WITHIN BS STANDARD TOLERANCES.

JOHNNY

 

[strongboes]

As already advised i would use a rapid set flexible.

A tip for you on levelling the floor, if using a leveling compound as I would imagine you would be, then it is possible to use a straight edge to pull off the floor perfectly level and flat, basically as soon as you can walk on it without you marking it, but before it is set.

Use the longest straight edge you can get in the room, i have one 2.4 metres long for this. Obviously use in conjunction with your level.

I would say go for the job! The tiles are only 400*400 so shouldn't be too hard. I recently did a job with 600*600 and it looked fab down. Best of luck!

 

[grumpygrouter]

As already advised i would use a rapid set flexible.

A tip for you on levelling the floor, if using a leveling compound as I would imagine you would be, then it is possible to use a straight edge to pull off the floor perfectly level and flat, basically as soon as you can walk on it without you marking it, but before it is set.

Use the longest straight edge you can get in the room, i have one 2.4 metres long for this. Obviously use in conjunction with your level.

I would say go for the job! The tiles are only 400*400 so shouldn't be too hard. I recently did a job with 600*600 and it looked fab down. Best of luck!

Nice tip Strongboes.

Grumpy

 

[Grace'sDad]

Yup, the porcelain needs sealing. I pointed out that it's pretty high maintenance (cheap black Chinese imports) and the slippery when wet factor. Now she is thinking of changing tiles altogether.

As for levelling, the kitchen is not huge and has a central island, also it leads through into a utility room so I won't be able to drag a straight edge. I'm a pretty handy plasterer though so I can float the floor as I have in the past and achieve a nice smooth, flat surface.

I know I can get a good finish. My concern was that she seems to be very fussy, telling me about her displeasure with the non-round cut of her island worktop (looked fine to me!)

Now we've discussed it in detail I think we are both happier.
Guess this shows the importance of good open communication eh?

I've also been asked to stay on after and tile the bathroom and new conservatory - RESULT!!!

 

[penno]

Can you take out the central island mate? I have just done my first granite job of 600 x 600 which was a large kitchen with an island in the middle. bit of a fiddle but managed to take the island out which saved a lot of work (pain in the arse as it had 3 sockets wired to it) but worth it.
Get some suckers for lifting them up to check bedding

 

[Grace'sDad]

Penno, nope cant take the island out. It's a really heavy duty kitchen and the muppets who installed it plumbed everything in with solvent weld. (it has the sink / waste disposal set in)

I spose I could take it out, but weighing things up, it'll be easier to remove the end panels and go under and round.

Suckers - definitely!

 

[daveshack]

Thoings?