Polypipe Overlay Advice

[moodle]

Thanks all, this is very useful! Don't suppose there are any tilers with experience of this system in the Liverpool area?

 

[AD Ceramics]

Thanks all, this is very useful! Don't suppose there are any tilers with experience of this system in the Liverpool area?

Ay up moodle. I'm in Manchester if that's any good if you need anything.

 

[widler]

Bit far for me,that drive down the m60/62 drives me insane, id end up doing time for muuurrrrdder if i drove down thatthing for more than 5 days

 

[AliGage]

Out of interest @3_fall why is SLC spec'd by TM.
There's a lot of sense to SLC over electric UFH. A lot of positives to its use.

The way I see it there boards are effectively a cement backer. The pipes are never going to "Float" out. The piping is a barrier pipe so it's expansion is accommodated and very minimal.
With all that in mind I see no benefit to a decoupler if tiled direct.
If the floor is sound and level and the boards are as such too. I see no need to SLC.
So surely a flexible adhesive is more than apt?

 

[AD Ceramics]

Norcross said the slc was to strengthen and make sure no air pockets around pipes. The only way they would spec the job.

 

[AliGage]

Strengthen What? The board itself? Was that over timber or screed sub?

 

[AD Ceramics]

Strengthen What? The board itself? Was that over timber or screed sub?

Overlay was fixed to timber floor so just to give it more rigidity I presume just like over plying floorboards make the whole floor one unit.

 

[AliGage]

Ok. But SLC would only be required over timber right. Concrete would surely be stable enough if secured to it?

 

[AD Ceramics]

Ok. But SLC would only be required over timber right. Concrete would surely be stable enough if secured to it?

Going of Norcross the slc was to make sure no air pockets as well.

 

[Old Mod]

Out of interest @3_fall why is SLC spec'd by TM.
There's a lot of sense to SLC over electric UFH. A lot of positives to its use.

The way I see it there boards are effectively a cement backer. The pipes are never going to "Float" out. The piping is a barrier pipe so it's expansion is accommodated and very minimal.
With all that in mind I see no benefit to a decoupler if tiled direct.
If the floor is sound and level and the boards are as such too. I see no need to SLC.
So surely a flexible adhesive is more than apt?

Well it's been spec'd by Weber, TM and Norcross so far in this thread alone!
I'd imagine even on a concrete base, one of its benefits is to eliminate air pockets, if air pockets exist they will heat to a much higher temperature will they not?
And the SLC will give a much more even distribution of heat.
Rather than lines of intense heat running thro the adhesive.

Could be wrong, but that's how I figure it Ali.

I struggle to see how laying a fragile trav floor direct to hot water pipes is never gonna have issues!
And apart from anything else if it's that cheap and there as much filler as stone, it's a disaster waiting to happen!
The stone and the resin do not expand and contract at the same rate, and it'll pop the resin!

Im convinced it'll crack!

But it's not my project, if you're happy Alister then go for it, but I'm never gonna agree with u on It haha sorry mate.

I'd love you to prove me wrong and we can put this subject to bed once and for all! God please! Hahaha

 

[AliGage]

 

[Lee@emctiles]

Im going to get a spec written by TileMaster and hopefully post it on here.

 

[Mark@Tilemaster]

Well it's been spec'd by Weber, TM and Norcross so far in this thread alone![/U]
I'd imagine even on a concrete base, one of its benefits is to eliminate air pockets, if air pockets exist they will heat to a much higher temperature will they not?
And the SLC will give a much more even distribution of heat.
Rather than lines of intense heat running thro the adhesive.

Could be wrong, but that's how I figure it Ali.

I struggle to see how laying a fragile trav floor direct to hot water pipes is never gonna have issues!
And apart from anything else if it's that cheap and there as much filler as stone, it's a disaster waiting to happen!
The stone and the resin do not expand and contract at the same rate, and it'll pop the resin!

Im convinced it'll crack!

But it's not my project, if you're happy Alister then go for it, but I'm never gonna agree with u on It haha sorry mate.

I'd love you to prove me wrong and we can put this subject to bed once and for all! God please! Hahaha

You are quite right in what you are saying, why can't we tile directly to the overlay system? The simple answer is that you can, but due to the fact that we have had a varied response from Polypipe's technical department in the past, we decided to put our own system together.

My understanding is that the overlay boards are not supposed to be screwed to the substrate because it isolates each individual board and therefore the system does not move as one / act as a floating system. As you quite rightly said in an earlier post, if the substrate on which the overlay boards are laid/applied is flat and smooth then this system going down as a floating system works fine - if the substrate is uneven it needs preparing and levelling first.

Levelling the overlay boards prior to fixing tiles gives you a smooth and uniformed surface on which to fix tiles, it fills the voids/channels where the pipes sit and in my opinion makes the job of fixing tiles that little bit easier. There is no need to apply 10mm of leveller, a coat of approximately 4 - 5mm throughout is adequate - well that's using a product such as Levelflex.

The reason why we advise customers to use an uncoupler is purely for extra protection, due to expansion and contraction etc. If asked the question, we would prefer to play on the side of caution.
Strictly speaking, there is no reason why you can't tile directly to this system providing the overlay boards have been fitted correctly. I know of customers who have fixed directly using an S2 adhesive and a grout with additional flexi additive and this has worked absolutely fine.
The 3 options that we would propose are as follows:
1, Prime boards. Use Ultimate S2 to fix Tilemaster Anti-fracture Mat. Ultimate S2 to fix tiles and then grout with Grout 3000. This option is using Anti-fracture Mat as insurance should there be lateral movement.
2, Prime boards. Use Ultimate S2 to fix tiles directly to the overlay boards. Grout with Grout 3000 and add Flexmaster additive as a dilution rate of 2 parts water to 1 part Flexmaster to the Grout 3000 - this gives the Grout 3000 similar flexural properties to Ultimate adhesive.
3, Prime boards. Levelflex to a depth of around 4 - 5mm. Ultimate adhesive to fix the tiles and grout with Grout 3000.

All 3 systems above have worked perfectly well on several projects in the past and there is no reason why this shouldn't continue.
I hope this helps.
[/URL]

 

[AliGage]

Thank you @Mark@Tilemaster

One quick question. I was Always under the impression/led to believe that there is no expansion or lateral movement in the boards.

I've tiled on these in the past directly and have seen two years on that all is chipper. As good mow as when I first tiled it.

I agree with using crack suppression mats with stone. Struggled to convince the builder of its use on this job mind. Although to a point he agreed but the boards went in bang on. So I then had the challenge of talking them into SLC just to use a mat. On the floor I have around 80sqm so would be a considerable expense.

 

[Mark@Tilemaster]

One quick question. I was Always under the impression/led to believe that there is no expansion or lateral movement in the boards.

That's also my understanding. I have had a couple of meetings with a company called Cellecta who produce a very similar board to the Polypipe overlay board and they say the same, they assure me that their boards do not move laterally - well they do but at an extremely low rate. Cellecta have assured me that providing the Cellecta panels/boards are fitted correctly (flush to the subfloor) then tiling directly to their systems is fine.
As I mentioned above, we are happy for customers to tile directly to the Polypipe Overlay but when doing so we would recommend our S2 adhesive followed by the Grout 3000 with flexi additive. If fixing a Natural Stone Tile to these systems you would need to use an uncoupling matt or anti-fracture mat.