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Discuss Problem with bal grout ebony in the General Off-topic Chat (nothing tile) area at TilersForums.com.

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Derek mason

Can any one offer any advice. We grouted a bathroom about three months ago using Bal ebony grout on white ceramic tiles. After five weeks the grout was still bleeding black everywhere. The ball rep came out and put it down to under hydration. We striped all the grout out which was a awful job and re grouted it to the letter. We still have the same problem. Ball are now suggesting we spray the tiles and grout with water and cover with plastic. They say this will cure it. Can this really be right. Has any one had the same problem

All the best derek
 
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oliver theobald

Can any one offer any advice. We grouted a bathroom about three months ago using Bal ebony grout on white ceramic tiles. After five weeks the grout was still bleeding black everywhere. The ball rep came out and put it down to under hydration. We striped all the grout out which was a awful job and re grouted it to the letter. We still have the same problem. Ball are now suggesting we spray the tiles and grout with water and cover with plastic. They say this will cure it. Can this really be right. Has any one had the same problem

All the best derek

Hi Derek, We have just found the same thing from a batch of BAL Micromax 2 Ebony. Did you ever solve this issue? We're looking at a complete strip back as our only real option.... arghhhh what a mess!
-Oliver
IMG_2492.JPG
 
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Dumbo

Hi Derek, We have just found the same thing from a batch of BAL Micromax 2 Ebony. Did you ever solve this issue? We're looking at a complete strip back as our only real option.... arghhhh what a mess!
-Oliver
View attachment 96325
How old is your grout. Also does it look that like because you have just used the shower. If so is your shower gravity fed , power shower or pressurised system
 
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oliver theobald

How old is your grout. Also does it look that like because you have just used the shower. If so is your shower gravity fed , power shower or pressurised system

It is just using a hand spray (the ones for watering flowers etc). We were just washing down the tiles before completing the silicone work. Really gutted to note that the grout - one week on from application - is so weak that it is soft enough to scratch out with your finger nails!
 
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Derek mason

Hi Derek, We have just found the same thing from a batch of BAL Micromax 2 Ebony. Did you ever solve this issue? We're looking at a complete strip back as our only real option.... arghhhh what a mess!
-Oliver
View attachment 96325
Hi Oliver. The best way we found to stop it bleeding is to spray the tiles with water and then cover it with cling film. It forces the water into the grout and re hydrates it . You might have to do that two or three times. But after each time just wash and wash and wash the tiles eventually it dose stop bleeding. It is a ridiculous situation though and very frustrating.
 
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mark0161

I have also had this issue, grouted an entire bathroom including a fair amount of mosaics, only to find that the gout wouldn't stop bleading. I had a section in another room to do so I decided to see if I could get it to work. No luck, didn't matter if I did a wet mix, standard mix, dry mix, and it didn't matter how I cleaned off the excess with a sponge, wet or dry, it always ended up the same. I've been to Topps to complain but they are quite dismissive, insisting bal make the best grout and if there was a bad batch then they'd know about it. Clearly wanting to blame me. I've been waiting a week for them to visit my customers house to view it but they are obviously in no rush. In the meantime I decided to try the plastic covering technique round the shower so at least the customer could use it. I had no other real option as removing the grout from the mosaics would be unbelievably time consuming. Surprisingly enough it's seemed to work. I've saturated the grout with water from a spray bottle then covered with clingfilm, after its dried I took the clingfilm off and wiped it down with a wet sponge then repeated 5-6 times. Very time consuming but not as much as replacing the grout, especially considering I've already siliconed half the bathroom. For anyone else who has this problem try this on a small patch to see if it'll work, it's worth a shot.
 
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mark0161

I did consider a grout sealer on the rest of the bathroom as it would take quite some time to do the clingfilm technique on the whole bathroom.

Can you recommend a grout sealer? There's so many out there I don't really know what's good and what's not.

The quality of the tiles was not fantastic to be honest, the customer bought them without me, which I wasn't thrilled about, but I never considered the tile to be at fault for the grout. I did a small patch of the tiles behind the mirror in the downstairs toilet, grouted with black mapei leftover from a job a few weeks back but had a slight issue with colour uniformity so decided to change back to Bal for the en-suite. Wish I hadn't now but I guess it's a lesson learned, I'll have to give tilemaster a go on the second bathroom, which I start next week.
 
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Tommythetiler80

I did consider a grout sealer on the rest of the bathroom as it would take quite some time to do the clingfilm technique on the whole bathroom.

Can you recommend a grout sealer? There's so many out there I don't really know what's good and what's not.

The quality of the tiles was not fantastic to be honest, the customer bought them without me, which I wasn't thrilled about, but I never considered the tile to be at fault for the grout. I did a small patch of the tiles behind the mirror in the downstairs toilet, grouted with black mapei leftover from a job a few weeks back but had a slight issue with colour uniformity so decided to change back to Bal for the en-suite. Wish I hadn't now but I guess it's a lesson learned, I'll have to give tilemaster a go on the second bathroom, which I start next week.
Don’t let customer talk you into black grout use your charm and wit!if all else fails you should consider an extra charge for sponges and floats and buckets
 
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mark0161

Erm so I think I have the same issue here.

Grouted on Monday it’s now Saturday if I run a damp rag over the grout lines I get the ebony grout line on the rag. I’ve been told to wait for the Bal rep. Nightmare as I have the plumber booked in on Monday to fit everything... I probably should cancel that.

What is this wet and cling film method?
Is it worth doing?


It’s a pain in the arse but the cling film method works. Topps tiles refused to do anything about it and by the sounds of the original post it seems like bal won't do much either. They all blame under hydration but I had some areas to do after I found out about this bleeding issue, followed the instructions to the letter but same issue. No one accepts liability though so your left with this cling film method or removing the lot a starting again. Both are a pain but if you decide to remove it I can personally vouch for the tilemaster 3000 stuff someone else recommended. Did the customers second bathroom in that stuff and it worked a treat. I had grouted round tiny odd shaped mosaics so removing the grout would have been nearly impossible. Tried the spraying water then covering with cling film and it worked well enough, it took a few days of doing it twice a day, probably wasted over a day in total work time. But after 5/6 goes it seems to do the job. No phone calls back from the customer after 6 months so hopefully it'll stay good. Last time I use bal!
 
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Matthew Holloway

Thanks for that, I am pretty gutted with this. If I get the grout out to start again Im sure I will ruin the tiles so this water or a sealer is the only way to go.

Anyway some photos, have I got this technique right?
First of all this was my batch, purchased late June
rnTH6OU.jpg

rnTH6OU

damp rag on the grout
QzBBHmD.jpg

QzBBHmD

using this to mist some water on the tiles
WPybH79.jpg

0EXXCZN

wet about this much
usK94Z1.jpg

clingfilm
m1MHdSD.jpg

LiT76Gp

grout bleeds out under clingfilm
MUrvibs.jpg

MUrvibs


so is next step, tomorrow morning, remove all the cling film, rub down with a dry sponge/microfiber or a damp one? and repeat the spray clingfilm method.

If I do one in the morning should I be okay to do another around 6pm?

I want some bloody BAL compo after this one let me tell you. Seems funny how its all happened to us???? I'll keep thread updated anyway with whatever Kieran the Bal rep says.
 
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mark0161

Yeah that looks exactly the same as mine. Seems like you're doing everything right from the pictures so just keep at it and hopefully it'll work. In the morning I'd wipe down with a wet sponge and repeat the process, really soak the grout in water before putting the clingfilm on. Then you should be fine to go again at 6pm, especially in this weather, should dry pretty quickly.

I really hope you get some sort of compo, don't hold your breath though. I'm convinced after testing it with perfect ratio mixes, plus wet and dry mixes, that it's just terrible grout, all of them came out the same. Also considering the unbelievable hassle of fixing the problem it's just not worth the risk in future. Keep us posted, I'd love for someone to get some retribution at least.
 
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Matthew Holloway

The sealents could be an idea if this clingfilm nonsense doesn’t work.

So this morning I wiped down with a damp sponge, sprayed it loads and cling filmed again, I’ll add some really exciting photos up later but the bleed was a lot less overall like 80%less. Which is giving me hope.

I was thinking about BAL compo and how they will wriggle out but I’m actually in a fairly fortunate position where at the same time doing the bathroom with the micromax2 ebony I did the kitchen with micromax2 gunmetal and the gunmetal is fine. I also used Bal premixed white star adhesive for the whole lot too.

Can’t wait to hear their reasoning why it’s all my fault.
 
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mark0161

It is difficult to prove otherwise, with things like this they'll always find a way to claim user error. I had tiled and grouted the splashback in the kitchen and utility room, behind the sink and the the floor in the downstairs toilet, the floor in the bathroom, plus by the time the topps tiles manager came out I'd done the walls and floor in the second bathroom too. All in a variety of bal, tilemaster and mapei, guess what? No problems with any of them, but it doesn't count for anything with those guys, they'll always just say I made a bad mix (even though it would need to be about 6 bad mixes).
 
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Dumbo

It is difficult to prove otherwise, with things like this they'll always find a way to claim user error. I had tiled and grouted the splashback in the kitchen and utility room, behind the sink and the the floor in the downstairs toilet, the floor in the bathroom, plus by the time the topps tiles manager came out I'd done the walls and floor in the second bathroom too. All in a variety of bal, tilemaster and mapei, guess what? No problems with any of them, but it doesn't count for anything with those guys, they'll always just say I made a bad mix (even though it would need to be about 6 bad mixes).
Couldn't agree more . Stop using bal adhesives the are children without parents and stop using topps tiles who are selling inferior tiles at large prices and on a large scale and will eventually kill the tile market by getting everybody to think tiles are really expensive and aren't great quality
 
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mark0161

Well bal and topps will feed you a load of crap about how you can't wash away their pigment as it's chemically bonded to the cement particles, which supposedly is what makes their grout the best, although we all know how reliable a claim that is now, so who knows really. I have had a colour uniformity issue with mapei before (if the bag isn't shaken up properly before mixing) but never with bal so it may be true to some extent, although I'm sure it's not as perfect as they suggest. Mine did stay pretty black, but it is quite normal for grout to absorb some water and look darker when wet so I wouldn't worry too much. The main thing is to stop it from bleeding and sure up the surface. Either way you should start to see results by Tuesday morning, maybe do it a couple more times that day if it is significantly better, that should be enough by then hopefully. If it's still bad by Tuesday you can keep going and hope it works soon, or try one of the grout sealants, but I can see why you are reluctant to remove the grout, those tiles are pretty small, it'd feel like a lifetime redoing all that grout!

I do dislike topps too, especially now, but too many customers go there and pick tiles before I've even looked at the job, maybe I need to be more assertive, I also need to find a good local tile supplier, they seem few and far between round my way.
 

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