Problem with leaking bath/shower

[Naitch316]

Hi,

We have had a problem with leaking bath/shower for a good few months now. We've had the sealent around the bath re-done twice and the tiles around the shower re-grouted and neither has sorted the problem. Both times the sealent begins to leak again significantly within a few weeks.

We have been advised by a plumber that the problem is the tiles are not fitted properly to the bath and we need the bathroom re-tiled (we trust this guy and he wasn't offering to do the work). We've had a quote for this and have been told that the tiles can't be removed as it is plasterboard so he'd have to tile over the top of the existing tiles (pics attached). I'm not convinced this will sort the problem, from reading around it seems to me that the problem might be the bath moving whem someone is in it, possibly due to the floorboards being dodgy.

Basically I just want the problem sorted - would retiling the bathroom help or should I get someone to look at re-installing the bath or maybe a new shower? I've attached a few pictures, any more info required then let me know.

cheers

 

[Gazzer]

Can you actually see where the leak is coming from ?
My first thing that I would do is see if you can stop movement in the bath by strengthening the supports under the bath.
Can you obtain spare tiles ?
If its on plasterboard then remove the affected area and the boards in one. Replace with either new board or tile backer boards preferably then re tile.

 

[Naitch316]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes we can see leaks in a couple of places. In one place the sealent looks fine in the other it's cleary not doing the job.

We're going to go with all new tiles as the old ones don't look great.

Is there a way to tell whether the problem is movement of the bath? I've tried standing in it etc and it seems farily solid.

thanks

 

[Gazzer]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes we can see leaks in a couple o

??????????????

 

[tfs]

sounds to me like that bath itself may not be fixed to the wall.

Baths are supposed to be fixed with brackets to the wall but many guys dont do this and usualy it will be fine but the fact that the silicon keeps failing may mean that there is too much movement.

As sir ramic says try supporting bath with uprights, if that fails you may need to fix the brackets if thats whate wrong as they hold the bath into the wall to stop it mothing outwards.

 

[tfs]

photo 3 looks like someones put silicon over the grout, is that the case? or arethese fake mosaics

grout job looks rather poor too, maybe its hollow?

 

[tfs]

the strip you have over bath looks like its trapping water too

 

[Naitch316]

Will remove the strips, we put those in as a stop-gap to stop further water damage but it looks like it's made things worse. Not sure if they are fake mosaics - how would I tell the difference.

The bath appears to be attached to the wall, though it doesn't look like it's very well done:




This was all done before we moved in and the professionals we've had look at it think it looks like a DIY job done by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

Sir Ramic - I edited the accidental post...

 

[Bathfix Bob]

Yep, my money is on a poorly fitted bath aswell. Very rarely do I see a bath fitted right (unless its one I've fitted), battens to support the edge and a whole tube of quality silicone to glue the bath to the wall, tile leaving 2-3mm gap and then more silicone round edge as a secondry seal.

See if you can get the bath to move as you get into it without water, any movement means the bath is poorly fitted and there lies your problem.

 

[Bathfix Bob]

It is possible to remove a bath with minimal damage to tiles, I've just done one today, all I did was cut away sections of the tile at each front corner (down about 3 inches from top) and then reach round and if you're lucky you can remove the screws from the L shaped brackets and after slitting the silicone pull the bath foward enough to allow it to clear the L brackets (if even fitted?)

Then remove the leg assemby from the other end to the plughole and drop that end down enough to lift up other end and out. Then you can refit it properly, I however don't know the condition of the plasterboard.

When fitted back all you see is a single cut line, filled with grout on the two tiles at either end that were originally L shaped (kind of looks like the tiler has cut two pieces rather than cut a square out.

No new tiles need to be bought, just fit the cut out tiles back in but be careful not the break them, use a paint scraper.

 

[Stef]

Looking at those pictures i would bite the bullet & re-tile.
take out the bath, strip the plaster board off & either fix new plasterboard or tile backer boards & get the bath fixed properly.
thats a fair bit of mould build up you have, i think if you just try a repair then you will always have trouble with water.

 

[DHTiling]

Push down on the corners of the bath.. do these move..? i will bet that that is where water is getting in.. it only takes a small split and the water will travel..

Even if you re-tile, you need to strengthen up the bath..

 

[White Room]

If you retile might be worth concidering tanking around the bath as well..

 

[Tile High Club]

Afternoon

It seems to me that who ever fitted your bath didn't do the best job as the movement in the bath would cause the silicone to fail.

However this is not the main issue, if the bath was fitted securely and silicone done correctly you would still end up with water coming through. This is due to the fact that the tiler who fixed initially has not used a tanking (waterproofing) system under the tiles. You need this as grout (excluding epoxy resin) will always let water through. Judging by the large grout joints on your photos then it will be letting quite a bit through which is why your problem comes back so quickly.

There are two solutions that I can think of:

no1 remove old tiles, replace plasterboard (as this will be very wet), refit the bath and retile using a tanking system first.

no2 remove your bath, let the area dry, remove old silicone and grout, refit bath and then use an epoxy resin grout which will make it water proof.

Both are expensive but if the leaks continue your floor boards could get damp which no one wants

I hope that helps.

 

[paul78]

No dispespect intented but i would be looking at a full bathroom refurb which will look amazing, add value to your home and last you years. (missus will be smiling also):smilewinkgrin:

 

[Stef]

Afternoon

It seems to me that who ever fitted your bath didn't do the best job as the movement in the bath would cause the silicone to fail.

However this is not the main issue, if the bath was fitted securely and silicone done correctly you would still end up with water coming through. This is due to the fact that the tiler who fixed initially has not used a tanking (waterproofing) system under the tiles. You need this as grout (excluding epoxy resin) will always let water through. Judging by the large grout joints on your photos then it will be letting quite a bit through which is why your problem comes back so quickly.

There are two solutions that I can think of:

no1 remove old tiles, replace plasterboard (as this will be very wet), refit the bath and retile using a tanking system first.

no2 remove your bath, let the area dry, remove old silicone and grout, refit bath and then use an epoxy resin grout which will make it water proof.

Both are expensive but if the leaks continue your floor boards could get damp which no one wants

I hope that helps.

I have tiled HUNDREDS of showers on site over the years without tanking & i have not have had 1 fail yet,
Yes i know some people will say you must tank but it depends on what adhesives & grout you are using.
I am tiling my downstairs shower room in my own house in the next fortnight & I will be tanking the walls, only because i have a bal kit in the garage, if i didnt have that then i would be quite happy to tile without tanking.

 

[Bathfix Bob]

I know what you mean, here up north its getting people to pay for it. Many would think tanking is overkill over a bath, I suppose it depends on how well it is fitted and how many times its used per day.

I'd like to think quality work and quality adhesive/ grout will be fine over a bath and save your tanking kit for the shower enclosures.

 

[Stef]

I know what you mean, here up north its getting people to pay for it. Many would think tanking is overkill over a bath, I suppose it depends on how well it is fitted and how many times its used per day.

I'd like to think quality work and quality adhesive/ grout will be fine over a bath and save your tanking kit for the shower enclosures.

Exactly, try talking old mrs smith to tank round a bath for extra money, we have used white star on most of the showers we have done, tile size dependant, with bal grout & good quality silicone before & after tiling & never had a problem. when on site though you have to use what is supplied, within reason!!!
the other post stated about the size of the grout lines in the photos, there is only 1 grout line right round the tile the rest of this tile isnt designed to get grouted.
looks like the strip on the front of the tiles isnt helping & there looks like a hole in the back somewhere too.

 

[jay]

I have tiled HUNDREDS of showers on site over the years without tanking & i have not have had 1 fail yet,
Yes i know some people will say you must tank but it depends on what adhesives & grout you are using.
I am tiling my downstairs shower room in my own house in the next fortnight & I will be tanking the walls, only because i have a bal kit in the garage, if i didnt have that then i would be quite happy to tile without tanking.

so if i read this right your only tanking because you have a spare kit .right i belive you

 

[Stef]

so if i read this right your only tanking because you have a spare kit .right i belive you

Yeah, why do you think there will be a problem with that? i can guarantee that if i had to tile my shower without tanking then i wouldnt have a problem with water ingress.

 

[widler]

i agree with robson,tanking is extra protection,sometimes a needed extra protection if not tiled right in the 1st place.

back to the thread,i actually think the bath has been fixed to the tiles and not tiled on top of the bath,that could be the problem

 

[White Room]

Yeah, why do you think there will be a problem with that? i can guarantee that if i had to tile my shower without tanking then i wouldnt have a problem with water ingress.

You have never stripped a shower and found water ingress which has caused untold damage to the substrate..

 

[kilty55]

hello,i would rip the lot out i dont think re grouting or re siliconing water damaged areas will work

re board the areas that need done and apply a tanking kit as well as strengthening the bath before re tiling

i hope you get it sorted

 

[Stef]

You have never stripped a shower and found water ingress which has caused untold damage to the substrate..

yeah, take it you saw the photos i put on here a few weeks ago, thats what happens when you use the wrong adhesive & grout. we repaired a few showers on that site & we didnt tank because the house builder wouldnt spend the money on a kit, we retiled using the same method we have used for years without a problem
I know the point you are making but regarding this post the tiling is only over the bath not in a shower. there are major concerns with that bath but i dont think the majority of the water is goin through the tiles.

 

[widler]

ofcoarse tanking kits are added exra protection,and ofcoarse showers have failed when not done rightthe ,right addie ect ect.
when i was serving my time ,we plastered about 6 or 7 diff sites,all bathrooms were skimmed,pva'ed and tiled with tubbed addie.(in the shower areas the tilers told us to just brush finish the shower areas,stick better )

im not saying some failed,i aint been in many,but the few i have,ive retiled a few over the years,i knocked the original tiles off,nowt up with them,just old fastioned.so it dose work,has worked over the years,its frowned upon now.
has anyone seen a tanked area fail,if not done right?