Rant Rant Rant

[doug boardley]

]unfortunately £10/msq is the going rate right now[/B], (generally i pay more) with twice-monthly or monthly payments as standard. I heard of one TC who will give their fixers twice monthly if they pay £7.50 off the invoice to have it processed quicker. We are in a terrible state right now, if there are fixers out there still earning £200 a day then your lucky.
The days of earning that money are over. For subbies who think that TC's are earning loads out of their fixers, then they are wrong! While the subbies are in the pub moaning about how they cant make money (work a full day then?) I am pricing/estimating/writing cheques/book-keeping etcetc, hmrc clown-show to deal with once a month. Sure, im not doing it for nothing, but dont expect me to do it for free! Then theres the risk, tens of thousands of pounds worth of materials need to be paid for end of month or account is on stop. Builders late in paying (not all but some), the aggro, the snags, the remedials, the dayworks and extras that dont get paid........ I have seen it from both sides, but remember the companies are winning tiling contracts at 25-30% less than they used to, how could wages ever stay the same?

not to me it isn't, still getting the rate I used to get pre-recession altho' it's more private work these days whereas it used to be a 50/50 between doing private and subbying to developers.

 

[Dan]

unfortunately £10/msq is the going rate right now, (generally i pay more) with twice-monthly or monthly payments as standard. I heard of one TC who will give their fixers twice monthly if they pay £7.50 off the invoice to have it processed quicker. We are in a terrible state right now, if there are fixers out there still earning £200 a day then your lucky.
The days of earning that money are over. For subbies who think that TC's are earning loads out of their fixers, then they are wrong! While the subbies are in the pub moaning about how they cant make money (work a full day then?) I am pricing/estimating/writing cheques/book-keeping etcetc, hmrc clown-show to deal with once a month. Sure, im not doing it for nothing, but dont expect me to do it for free! Then theres the risk, tens of thousands of pounds worth of materials need to be paid for end of month or account is on stop. Builders late in paying (not all but some), the aggro, the snags, the remedials, the dayworks and extras that dont get paid........ I have seen it from both sides, but remember the companies are winning tiling contracts at 25-30% less than they used to, how could wages ever stay the same?

I think in this case the rate of £10pm was insulting and he quite rightly quit. Did you not hear how poor the blokes management was in arranging adhesives and whatnot? There wasn't a chance to earn 200 a day on this job as there was only enough adhesive for a few meters. I'd have sent the sod a bill for a full day for wasting my time.

A few areas are busier than others, that's for sure. But in area's where there are too many tilers working for peanuts you have a slim chance of getting a decent rate from a contractor. You're best aiming for high class stone and the likes and if you get 'em your laughing. It's the future and you can't find a tiler to fit those for £10pm and walk away with even rice on the table. And you certainly don't get many (I'd like to say non but we've seen a few on here lol) coyboys tying up their horses for them either.

I believe in some part of Ireland though that the rate can get very very low, domestic or subbing. Those guys haven't half had myther over the years, they need a decent streak for a bit but apparently there ANOTHER bank being bailed out? WTF - Hasn't anybody learnt anything from the last one? The money just goes on the top bankers and they still downsize staff, increase charges, and apparently they're paying it back?!

Sorry. Went off on one then.

 

[doug boardley]

I don't think you went off on one at all Dan, just told a few home truths mate

 

[mz30]

While £10m2 is a scandolous price,from what i can see its the sign of the times especially if your having to stand round.

At the moment am doing bathrooms on a refurb contract and we get £160 per bathroom now those bathrooms can be between 10m2 and 20m2 but the price doesnt change,now most of them can be done in a day which turns into a half decent wage at the end of the week,but there is a chance that they can run into two days which then messes with your money as you get no more for it,from what i can see and from talking to people i know in the trade then this is the norm through out the north -west,if your earning over a grand a week at the moment i think your very lucky and if you haveny had to drop your prices even slightly then your extremely lucky.

Hopefully over the next 12 months things will start to pick up,as i have seen a lot of new build work start up again

 

[doug boardley]

things will be very slow picking up unless we stick to our guns and demand a fair wage for our skills, we really do have to steady this ship and get back on course. £10 a metre is a downright insult to our trade, double that is still far too low.

 

[Thespanishtiler]

on this subject in general

I am sorry to say this but the m2 rate on offer is there to accept or decline and thats up to you and your circumstances.

if you do and dont like the site/contractor again you can leave site

it comes down to what you want to do

lots of fixers have made good money subbing to tile contractors in the good times without all the hastles of the domestic side and now its come to an end have to accept the current state of play.

 

[White Room]

I've seen a few recessions and the one in the nineties saw good bricklayers on £50 a day on site work, it's a matter of biting the bullet for the time being.

 

[doug boardley]

on this subject in general

I am sorry to say this but the m2 rate on offer is there to accept or decline and thats up to you and your circumstances.

if you do and dont like the site/contractor again you can leave site

it comes down to what you want to do

lots of fixers have made good money subbing to tile contractors in the good times without all the hastles of the domestic side and now its come to an end have to accept the current state of play.

I agree in principle Spanish, but in these days of mass redundancies every Tom,Dick and Harry think that they can tile! (us pro's know otherwise), but it's these guys that set the undercutting trend, they trade for maybe 12 months then go bust, but there's more waiting to repeat the cycle. They can maybe sweet talk the customers and say about accepted methods being overkill and this drives proper fixing methods down. Any tiler worth his/her salt wouldn't stoop to running an inferior service and compromising an enduring installation imo.

 

[Thespanishtiler]

I agree Doug, this situation is more prevalant in the subcontract/commercial arena and my point is that whilst some tilers have spent the last few years working to build up a name/reputation in the domestic side which is not as volatile as commercial(with all the hard/extra work that entails)
others have been on site earning good money on basic ceramics. working as a subbie is great when things are good, fact is things aint good.

 

[doug boardley]

which is why I think that tiling should be licenced, it has the same potential to kill as much as shoddy electrics, plumbing etc. That is why every job I do I always go with a belt and braces attitude thinking, "this could be my house and my wife and kids in that bathroom" I personally couldn't sleep easy unless I was sure that all bases were covered, and that attitude does cost extra, but an extra cost well worth having imo.

 

[Thespanishtiler]

its like anything Doug, we set our stall out to provide the service we want to sell

I provide a top end service and charge accordingly, this week i replaced a floor that i felt was not up to being tiled onto, new boards and extra noggins, hardie backer boards and dural ci, top quality C2 S1 addy. i hadnt allowed for all this but did it labour free and provided the ci foc, only the hardie backer had been allowed for. so i earn a bit less but my integrety is intact.

domestic customer that I work for care about their home and want a proper job doing, some commercial operations just want the job doing, they dont care, except for the price.

 

[doug boardley]

its like anything Doug, we set our stall out to provide the service we want to sell

I provide a top end service and charge accordingly, this week i replaced a floor that i felt was not up to being tiled onto, new boards and extra noggins, hardie backer boards and dural ci, top quality C2 S1 addy. i hadnt allowed for all this but did it labour free and provided the ci foc, only the hardie backer had been allowed for. so i earn a bit less but my integrety is intact.

domestic customer that I work for care about their home and want a proper job doing, some commercial operations just want the job doing, they dont care, except for the price.

my atttitude exactly mate

 

[EFC Mike]

I agree SPM,
I won't work for agencies or certain builders (there're not all bad)...one particular builder expected me to fix Trav for 8m2 and then asked me to use dry wall adhesive to fix them with because he had over ordered it.:mad2: